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Old 07-26-2016, 06:19 AM   #1
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13.5k Upgrade?

2014 Rushmore Lincoln comes with a 15k A/C unit on the rear and a 13.5k low profile Penguin II on the front. It seems that is the common setup for nearly all of the dual A/C 5th wheels. Do they not understand square footage? I need all the cooling I can get! At 100 degrees on the lot with the sun broadside, inside temp in the LR will creep into the upper 80s. A tad uncomfortable to me, downright miserable for my wife and daughter, and they let me know about it.
I know that the High Capacity Penguin II has 15k output and is a direct swap. Has anyone actually done this, and how much of a difference did you notice? I tried searching, but no pertinent results. My brain tells me that an extra 1.5k simply can't make that much of a difference, especially for nearly a thousand bucks, but what price can you put on peace? Er, I mean making the family comfortable? Just a couple of degrees cooler in the LR could calm the savage beasts, and I want to LIVE!
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Old 07-26-2016, 10:34 AM   #2
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We just swapped ours. The Penguin crapped out....we replaced with a regular 15K Dometic. So much quieter and efficient. I think CR is the only one still using the Penguin.

Our units run most of the day, but we stay cool now.

I personally don't think the roof duct in an rv is worth a darn. You lose too much cooling due to heat in the attic(lack of insulation). We keep the quick cool dump open in the living room.....sometimes in the BR.

And there's a hellofa diference!


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Old 07-26-2016, 10:44 AM   #3
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We just swapped ours. The Penguin crapped out....we replaced with a regular 15K Dometic. So much quieter and efficient. I think CR is the only one still using the Penguin.

Our units run most of the day, but we stay cool now.

I personally don't think the roof duct in an rv is worth a darn. You lose too much cooling due to heat in the attic(lack of insulation). We keep the quick cool dump open in the living room.....sometimes in the BR.

And there's a hellofa diference!


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You are right about the roof duct and cool dump. No comparison in my mind.
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Old 07-26-2016, 10:51 AM   #4
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I just went through every vent hole in the duct system. The duct itself seems okay, mine is made out of an insulation-type board about 3/8" thick. The internal is about 8" wide and 1 1/4" tall. The problems I found was the vent tubes were never trimmed and were sticking into the duct (partially blocking air flow), in some places the ducts were squished, and the metal rectangular tubing CR originally put into various places to maintain duct opening size had shifted sideways, again partially blocking air flow. I fixed all of that and took the vent air flow adjusters off about half of the covers where I knew I would want maximum flow. I get decent air flow now, but am wondering how much better going with the 15k would be. And yes, I was seriously thinking of just getting the Brisk II, $200 less and only 4" taller. I shall count you as a Plus 1 for replacement!
http://www.crossroadsowners.com/foru...cts-11903.html
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Old 07-26-2016, 11:28 AM   #5
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I just went through every vent hole in the duct system. The duct itself seems okay, mine is made out of an insulation-type board about 3/8" thick. The internal is about 8" wide and 1 1/4" tall. The problems I found was the vent tubes were never trimmed and were sticking into the duct (partially blocking air flow), in some places the ducts were squished, and the metal rectangular tubing CR originally put into various places to maintain duct opening size had shifted sideways, again partially blocking air flow. I fixed all of that and took the vent air flow adjusters off about half of the covers where I knew I would want maximum flow. I get decent air flow now, but am wondering how much better going with the 15k would be. And yes, I was seriously thinking of just getting the Brisk II, $200 less and only 4" taller. I shall count you as a Plus 1 for replacement!
http://www.crossroadsowners.com/foru...cts-11903.html


I did similar on our ducts the first summer we were in our Rushmore. I was thinking Dometic specs were 1 1/2 X 12 on ducts.....but of course I've slept since then. I would love to see some sort of honey comb structure duct used to keep the ducts from collapsing. Also, mounting in-ceiling lights under a duct doesn't help with air flow.

We've had three Penguins.....all three shook the whole rv when the compressor started.

We have two Heartland fifth wheels on one side, and a Hitchhiker on the other side. All have full size units on the front. Our new ac is white. The other unit is black, but will be getting a white cover. IMO, the cover needs to stay as cool as possible, not absorb more heat.


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Old 07-26-2016, 12:14 PM   #6
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You could very well be right about the duct size, I didn't make hard measurements. I can only guess Dometic figures that the insulation is efficient enough and the cover vented well enough that it doesn't matter. Coat that sucker in silver if it would help!
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Old 07-26-2016, 12:42 PM   #7
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awnings over all windows and reflectix where you can !
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Old 07-26-2016, 01:06 PM   #8
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You could very well be right about the duct size, I didn't make hard measurements. I can only guess Dometic figures that the insulation is efficient enough and the cover vented well enough that it doesn't matter. Coat that sucker in silver if it would help!
I can tell you, there ain't much insulation in our attic. I found that when I repaired a light in the BR. Also when I pulled a living room speaker.

Also, the beige color of the Alpha Ply roof doesn't help.....nor the dark color of the fifth wheel. My neighbor that has the Hitchhiker (white) compared temperatures of our rigs. Our Rushmore was 12.5* hotter on the outside surface than his Hitchhiker.

I actually looked at the RV Armour roof.....just curious what it would do. But, the Alpha Ply is so thin, I would be afraid the whole roof might peel off.

We will be getting all the windows tinted soon.
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Old 07-26-2016, 01:25 PM   #9
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Also, the beige color of the Alpha Ply roof doesn't help.....nor the dark color of the fifth wheel. My neighbor that has the Hitchhiker (white) compared temperatures of our rigs. Our Rushmore was 12.5* hotter on the outside surface than his Hitchhiker.

.
What year is that HH? We had a 94 and I thought that was one mighty fine rig. They have since quit manufacturing them.
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Old 07-26-2016, 01:46 PM   #10
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What year is that HH? We had a 94 and I thought that was one mighty fine rig. They have since quit manufacturing them.
Not sure. They are in Iowa right now. Yes, from what I know they are well made rigs. My neighbor did tell me he's had a few plumbing issues. Said he removed the coroplast under belly completely and left it off. I really can't understand that one. I just cut access holes, then clean good and use Gorilla tape on it.

I googled Hitchhiker, and looks like they may be manufacturing them again. I know a few months ago, I met a couple on their way back to Kansas. He was pulling what appeared to me to be a new Hitchhiker.

After looking at the site I googled, it says it is owned by NuWa, but I only see used Hitchhikers.
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Old 07-26-2016, 02:14 PM   #11
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We just swapped ours. The Penguin crapped out....we replaced with a regular 15K Dometic. So much quieter and efficient. I think CR is the only one still using the Penguin.

Our units run most of the day, but we stay cool now.

I personally don't think the roof duct in an rv is worth a darn. You lose too much cooling due to heat in the attic(lack of insulation). We keep the quick cool dump open in the living room.....sometimes in the BR.

And there's a hellofa diference!


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I'm going to disagree with loosing too much cooling in the attic. My house ducts are also routed through my attic space, and since the ducts are insulated like the rv ones, there is minimal loss of cooling. I'm more inclined to believe there is cooling loss in the joints and just poor connections to the ceiling vents.
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Old 07-26-2016, 02:56 PM   #12
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I googled Hitchhiker, and looks like they may be manufacturing them again. I know a few months ago, I met a couple on their way back to Kansas. He was pulling what appeared to me to be a new Hitchhiker.

After looking at the site I googled, it says it is owned by NuWa, but I only see used Hitchhikers.

You got me all excited when I read they were manufacturing again. So I emailed them.
Their response.

No. We decided against re-entering the manufacturing side of the business. We now sell new and used 5th wheels and make a market for used HitcHHikers. We have them in stock from 34' to 40' in length and from 2003 to 2012 models year. You can view our inventory at kansasrvcenter.com We are still located in Chanute Kansas. MIKE


Now I will quit hijacking this thread.
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Old 07-26-2016, 03:00 PM   #13
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I'm going to disagree with loosing too much cooling in the attic. My house ducts are also routed through my attic space, and since the ducts are insulated like the rv ones, there is minimal loss of cooling. I'm more inclined to believe there is cooling loss in the joints and just poor connections to the ceiling vents.
If I'm not mistaken, the duct material in these units is merely a foam sheet, 3/8" or so, formed to a rectangle. Residential ducts usually are wrapped with insulation. I don't think there is any comparison in R value of insulation between the two. The rv duct is probably no more than 1 to 1 1/2" from the roof. All I saw up there was fiberglass insulation. You would think they would use a radiant barrier of some sort. Even radiant barrier paint on the underside of the roof decking would be of tremendous value.

We're overcast here today, but I will run some tests before summer is out. I will test air temperature coming out the quick cool dump and then switch to duct and see what the air temperature is there. I will also pull a speaker out, and see just what insulation is there, plus attic temperature. I think I can reach the duct to take a temperature between the duct and the roof.

And I would agree with the duct joints. If I run the AC through the duct in the LR, I get a cold spot on the ceiling with condensation = air leak.
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Old 07-26-2016, 06:12 PM   #14
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I did find the source for most Rv ac ductwork. A company called LaSalle Brisol makes this product called Force Flow. Not sure Crossroads uses this but it is used by other Thor products and the company is in Indiana.



Duct - A/C - 2" x 8" x 96" - Force Flow
Price: $15.28
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Old 07-26-2016, 07:53 PM   #15
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Back when I initially looked at improving the air flow, I came to the conclusion the duct is crushed to an extent by the insulation when the roof was installed. I actually ordered a camera to check the inside of the duct out. It wasn't much good, so I gave up on that. Maybe I'll get interested again.


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Old 07-26-2016, 10:33 PM   #16
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Here's my 25 worth. We full time. Our Jefferson faces due west. I've installed 1/2 foam board on the sides of the slides and the bottom of the slide. Also insulated the underbelly last month with 1" foam board.
Before my insulation install, bedroom would never cool down. Now its damn cold. 100 today outside. I've also tinted the windows. PM me if you want to chat.
Eight years ago we looked at HitchHikers. Top of the line. Very well insulated. We ended up starting out with Alfa fiver.
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Old 07-27-2016, 06:25 AM   #17
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How did you attach the insulation boards ?

Hate to cover my nice painted slides - but I AM in TexUS !!!

You know the rule - Pics or it didn't happen
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Old 07-27-2016, 07:10 AM   #18
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Here's my 25 worth. We full time. Our Jefferson faces due west. I've installed 1/2 foam board on the sides of the slides and the bottom of the slide. Also insulated the underbelly last month with 1" foam board.
Before my insulation install, bedroom would never cool down. Now its damn cold. 100 today outside. I've also tinted the windows. PM me if you want to chat.
Eight years ago we looked at HitchHikers. Top of the line. Very well insulated. We ended up starting out with Alfa fiver.
Gary
Our front cap faces west. Lots of heat on that dark surface. I wonder why they haven't come up with the vacuum bonded walls for the slides. They've got that minimum amount of fiberglass in them like the roof has. I've got the plug that was cut out for our dryer vent install, and it is impressive. If the roof and slides were that way, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

The new 15K AC is so much of an improvement as far as cooling the BR. I have it on 75......I think it would pull down to 65 if I set it there.
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Old 07-27-2016, 08:37 AM   #19
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My slides are black. Here ya go. Cut to fit tight. Foil insulation tape to secure.



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Old 07-27-2016, 10:15 AM   #20
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Another heat source we had a problem with was the fresh air vent under the steps for the furance. There was a lot of heat coming in from the basement storage. I use to plug those off with bubble foil. But now with the insulation below, no issues with heat coming in from basement.
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