Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-06-2016, 03:24 PM   #1
Family Vacation Member
 
lmpres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: nh
Posts: 189
Excessive flex in the frame

Back in May I noticed that the seam at the bottom of the trailer on both sides had dropped down. About 1/2 inch on one side and 1/4 or so on the other. I brought the trailer in for something else and brought it up to the service writer. Eventually the Service Manager had to get involved and they tightened it up and resealed it. I went on a trip and noticed that it was separating again. The Service Manager said that it is due to "excessive flex in the frame" and they would be getting into contact with Crossroads about it tomorrow. Attached is a pic. Has anyone else had anything like this on their trailers?

I am already preparing for the 50 or so phone calls I will be involved with over this....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg seam seperation.jpg (64.6 KB, 77 views)
__________________
2015 Cruiser 322RL
2017 Ford F-350 Lariat Diesel Dually
lmpres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2016, 07:18 PM   #2
Site Team
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: WI.
Posts: 9,154
What exactly is that piece on the bottom?
Mine has a piece of aluminum that is bent to make the curve. If I remember correctly, they used pop rivets to fasten it to the sidewall.
Lloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2016, 05:29 PM   #3
Family Vacation Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 172
Mine has done the same thing since new and its a 08 model. -It has screws so i took everything down and inspected frame which was ok. I used buttle seal tape on bottom and a silicone that's flexible on the edge in pic and haven't had problem since.
malojeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 09:41 PM   #4
Full Time Camper
 
Kamper Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: WI
Posts: 563
Same problem

Our CF31RE10 does the same but not as severe as yours.
The dealership claims that it's normal flex in the frame of the 5th wheel.
We got a second opinion and got the same answer.
I sure hope it isn't a broken weld.
__________________
2010 CROSSROADS CRUISER CR31RE
2012 RAM 3500 ST + CHROME
Kamper Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2016, 06:57 AM   #5
TDG
Seasonal Camper
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: New Mexico/ Calif
Posts: 312
Lift the rear stabilizer jacks.
Put a floor jack under the pin box
Jack up the trailer. You should not be able to jack it up more than 5/8 of a inch with out the landing leaving the ground.
My. Rushmore had bad frame flex. Lippert came out an fixed it because it was unsafe to tow
My pin jacked up almost 3" before landing gear left the ground
__________________

2013 Jefferson
2006 Chev 3500 DRW
2009 Corvette
Tony & Joanne
Full Time
TDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2016, 02:16 PM   #6
Family Vacation Member
 
lmpres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: nh
Posts: 189
Do you mean lower the stabilizer jacks?

And what is the pin box?
__________________
2015 Cruiser 322RL
2017 Ford F-350 Lariat Diesel Dually
lmpres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2016, 02:29 PM   #7
Full Time Camper
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,508
What year and model do you have? These frames do flex even with everything normal, some more than others. And it can get worse over time. While the first thing that everyone assumes is a broken weld, that is more likely to happen as the unit ages.

Anyway the frame flexes while the sidewall is bolted or screwed to it. Usually this means hollow aluminum tubes with wood inserts are attached to steel and when new, the body actually helps stiffen the frame. Then either the bolts hold and there is a risk of sidewall cracks and interior damage or the holes get wallowed out, the frame flex increases and weld/steel failure is likely.

Lippert even has a spec for measuring flex called "Upper deck flex measurement". But it lacks pass/fail criteria and worse, the lower measurement point is not accessible on most trailers.

Flex on my Cruiser was 1-3/4", Lippert repaired it under warranty in 2011 and they immediately changed the frame design for new units.
Dayle1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2016, 02:35 PM   #8
TDG
Seasonal Camper
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: New Mexico/ Calif
Posts: 312
Raise up. The rear stabilizer jacks under the frame.
Pin box. Is the pin on the trailer that locks into the hitch
__________________

2013 Jefferson
2006 Chev 3500 DRW
2009 Corvette
Tony & Joanne
Full Time
TDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2016, 02:37 PM   #9
TDG
Seasonal Camper
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: New Mexico/ Calif
Posts: 312
Sorry. I can't post pics. With my phone on this website
__________________

2013 Jefferson
2006 Chev 3500 DRW
2009 Corvette
Tony & Joanne
Full Time
TDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 08:13 AM   #10
Full Time Camper
 
Kamper Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: WI
Posts: 563
Is 1.5" flex too much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayle1 View Post
What year and model do you have? These frames do flex even with everything normal, some more than others. And it can get worse over time. While the first thing that everyone assumes is a broken weld, that is more likely to happen as the unit ages.

Anyway the frame flexes while the sidewall is bolted or screwed to it. Usually this means hollow aluminum tubes with wood inserts are attached to steel and when new, the body actually helps stiffen the frame. Then either the bolts hold and there is a risk of sidewall cracks and interior damage or the holes get wallowed out, the frame flex increases and weld/steel failure is likely.

Lippert even has a spec for measuring flex called "Upper deck flex measurement". But it lacks pass/fail criteria and worse, the lower measurement point is not accessible on most trailers.

Flex on my Cruiser was 1-3/4", Lippert repaired it under warranty in 2011 and they immediately changed the frame design for new units.

Yesterday I tested the flex. It’s at 1.5”.
Each year I have pointed out to the Dealership the exterior seam failures and each year I have been told that it is normal frame flex.
How worried should I be?
__________________
2010 CROSSROADS CRUISER CR31RE
2012 RAM 3500 ST + CHROME
Kamper Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 09:30 AM   #11
Family Vacation Member
 
englishmatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 143
I have 2013 Elevation 3912 that is doing the same, but worse. The pin box lifts about an inch (never moved at all from new) before the deer leave the ground.

It has caused the seams to open and flex a lot.



This is one pic of the right side curve at the front of the unit.

Very concerned and not happy. Dealer has the unit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________

2013 Elevation 3912
2017 Dodge RAM 3500HD Dually with AISIN
2014 KTM 1190 Adventure R
englishmatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 11:21 AM   #12
Full Time Camper
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamper Dave View Post
Yesterday I tested the flex. It’s at 1.5”.
Each year I have pointed out to the Dealership the exterior seam failures and each year I have been told that it is normal frame flex.
How worried should I be?
What method did you use and what points did you measure at? There are 2 major components, one is actual bending or flexing of the main steel frame members that run along the sides of the bedroom. The other is bending and twisting of the two cross members that hold the pin box brackets. The pin box can also rotate due to loose bolts but that will not affect the wall seams. Anyway fixes for each component will be different so knowing the magnitude of each would be important.

I wish I could answer your real question definitely but I can't. Given the age of your trailer and cost of repairs I would say do nothing but repeat the measurement every year. If nothing changes then leave it alone, but if you ever see greater problems with the seams or sense a change, then check it again and make a decision at that point. At some point the trailer may be worth less than the cost of repairs. But spending $5k today is not going to increase the value of the trailer. As for safety, as long as things don't change, you are just as safe as you were 2 or 3 years ago. Send me a PM if you have more questions.
Dayle1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 11:33 AM   #13
TDG
Seasonal Camper
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: New Mexico/ Calif
Posts: 312
Call lippert I did
Jerry came out fixed my Rushmore on site
My pin went up almost 2.5" before landing gear left the ground
Now about 5/8 ". A lot better
__________________

2013 Jefferson
2006 Chev 3500 DRW
2009 Corvette
Tony & Joanne
Full Time
TDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 03:11 PM   #14
Full Time Camper
 
Kamper Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: WI
Posts: 563
Method used...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayle1 View Post
What method did you use and what points did you measure at? There are 2 major components, one is actual bending or flexing of the main steel frame members that run along the sides of the bedroom. The other is bending and twisting of the two cross members that hold the pin box brackets. The pin box can also rotate due to loose bolts but that will not affect the wall seams. Anyway fixes for each component will be different so knowing the magnitude of each would be important.

I wish I could answer your real question definitely but I can't. Given the age of your trailer and cost of repairs I would say do nothing but repeat the measurement every year. If nothing changes then leave it alone, but if you ever see greater problems with the seams or sense a change, then check it again and make a decision at that point. At some point the trailer may be worth less than the cost of repairs. But spending $5k today is not going to increase the value of the trailer. As for safety, as long as things don't change, you are just as safe as you were 2 or 3 years ago. Send me a PM if you have more questions.
METHOD USED: I used the Landing Gear to lower the Pin onto the Jack with plenty of force as to seat the cribs. Again I used the Landing Gear to raise the Pin off of the Jack and then lowered the Pin just to touch the Jack. Now I jacked up the Pin Box until the pressure was off of the Landing Gear and measured the distance the hydraulic Cylinder had moved. I repeated this test 3 times. It's amazing the noise the Pin Box makes upon jacking it up. I guess the noise of the landing gear usually drowns it out.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg A 001 (800x514).jpg (330.9 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg A002 (800x762).jpg (424.4 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg A003 (800x503).jpg (170.7 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg A004 (800x533).jpg (177.6 KB, 15 views)
__________________
2010 CROSSROADS CRUISER CR31RE
2012 RAM 3500 ST + CHROME
Kamper Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 03:25 PM   #15
TDG
Seasonal Camper
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: New Mexico/ Calif
Posts: 312
That's what I did. But floor jack 6x6 48" long
No cribbing
But I had 3" of flex
__________________

2013 Jefferson
2006 Chev 3500 DRW
2009 Corvette
Tony & Joanne
Full Time
TDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 06:04 AM   #16
Full Time Camper
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,508
Kamper Dave, the trim separation doesn't look too bad so on a trailer that is 6+ yrs old I would just continue to monitor the issue.
__________________
Larry Day

Texas Baptist Men-Retiree Builders member since '01
13 Silverado 3500HD D/A, 2wd CCSB srw, custom RKI bed
11 Cruiser CF32MK
https://www.picturetrail.com/dayle1
Dayle1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 06:36 AM   #17
Seasonal Camper
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Tn
Posts: 384
Reading through this post I'm wondering of use of one of those tripod pin box supports has merit.
__________________
Burgy
(Kevin and Lisa)
2008 Nissan Titan
2015 ST270BH
https://burgpath.us/photos/index.php?cat=13
Burgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 06:55 AM   #18
Full Time Camper
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgy View Post
Reading through this post I'm wondering of use of one of those tripod pin box supports has merit.
Most manufacturers build their units with zero support under the king pin during construction. When they tow it out the factory door is the first time the forward frame carries the pin weight. Also the movement of several people in the forward area is nothing compared to the weight multiplier that happens each time the truck rear tires hit a bump or pot hole going down the road.
Dayle1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 10:37 AM   #19
Family Vacation Member
 
englishmatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayle1 View Post
Most manufacturers build their units with zero support under the king pin during construction. When they tow it out the factory door is the first time the forward frame carries the pin weight. Also the movement of several people in the forward area is nothing compared to the weight multiplier that happens each time the truck rear tires hit a bump or pot hole going down the road.


Agreed, but most of these things are not getting used outside of the product design. I mean, making sure the Pin Box is secure you'd think would be high on the "basic design" list wouldn't you?

I have the trail air king box on mine as well as supplemental shocks on the unit and it's still failing. Not sure I could make a softer ride if I tried.

The manufactures just need to do better QC and not rely on the customers to provide Field QC as needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________

2013 Elevation 3912
2017 Dodge RAM 3500HD Dually with AISIN
2014 KTM 1190 Adventure R
englishmatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 11:06 AM   #20
Full Time Camper
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by englishmatt View Post
Agreed, but most of these things are not getting used outside of the product design. I mean, making sure the Pin Box is secure you'd think would be high on the "basic design" list wouldn't you?

I have the trail air king box on mine as well as supplemental shocks on the unit and it's still failing. Not sure I could make a softer ride if I tried.

The manufactures just need to do better QC and not rely on the customers to provide Field QC as needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The basic problem is not weak QC but marginal design/engineering and it applies to Lippert and most manufacturers. The gauge and hardness of steel used allows for too much flex. Then the sidewalls are attached with various methods and in some cases that actually stiffens the frame (at least initially), in other cases the frame moves while the sidewalls don't and damage occurs to trim, fiberglas skin, interior walls, etc.

I have no idea who is most at fault. Lippert probably has no idea how each manufacturer builds and attaches their sidewalls to the frame or the quality of that process. Meanwhile the frame has to flex, that is the nature of a home on wheels, then everyone cares about weight, so the frame ends up being marginal.

Finally each of us apply different levels of stress to the unit, I have a stock pin box and a fixed hitch, so when I hit a bump the stress on the frame is probably worst case. Others have softer setups.

But when I was not satisfied with the flex in my Cruiser, I can say that CR and Lippert were accessible and cooperative. However I doubt that CR would act the same today.
__________________
Larry Day

Texas Baptist Men-Retiree Builders member since '01
13 Silverado 3500HD D/A, 2wd CCSB srw, custom RKI bed
11 Cruiser CF32MK
https://www.picturetrail.com/dayle1
Dayle1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Crossroads RV or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×