Polar Tec Insulation: Your Opinion?

[Bobbi]

Hello. I've been lurking and reading this forum for a few weeks or so trying to get a feel for the CR company/products in general. I did read the thread about the reduced warranty, so that's on my mind as well.

We think the Sunset Trails are beautiful, but from what I can tell the insulation in those is less than the Polar Tec package. That's too bad as we really like the outdoor kitchen, and it doesn't look like an outdoor kitchen is available on the Cruiser/Patriot or Elevation.

What we'd like to hear is feedback from owners regarding the effectiveness of the Polar Tec insulation package. Do you feel it is adequate when it gets very hot? What about when it gets chilly?

Thank you for your valuable feedback. We really appreciate it!

[mark5w]

On the Sunset Trail web site it states that it has Apollo tech insulation. You should call a dealer and see what that is. They might have changed the name from Polar tech to Apollo tech. A call would straighten that out. Good luck with your search. BTW, my Patriot has Polar tech and it seems to work well.

[bdwillie]

Well I can chime in with my experience this winter in our 2012 Cruiser. We had purchased a new 2005 Keystone Springdale 27.9 Fifth Wheel and used it 8-9 years. We always take an 8 day vacation between Christmas through New Years usually in northern Georgia Tennessee area. We always carried an extra 30LB gas cyl. with us and on Average, without fail we would use two of the 30 LB cyl completely, and atLEAST half of the 3rd one before getting home. Furnace ran constantly it seems when set at 68 degrees inside the coach. Purchased the 2012 Cruiser last November 2012right before "The Big Trip" Polar Teck Insulation Package. Whatta Difference

To start with, we had several nights on this years 9 day Northwestern Georgia trip thatwere below freezing, three were below 18 degrees, Had icicles hanging on the nose cap! Furnace on time was nothing like the springdale. Wife was toasty warm, and Mom didn't have to wear socks and slippers inside to keep her feet warm. Still had the thermostat set at 68 degrees. All four of us was very comfortable (including a very cold natured Italian Greyhound). The best part, Used 1 30 lb cyl completely, and approx. Half of the second 30 LB cyl. never needed the third one! To me it's a huge improvement over what we had.

Heck, who am I kidding, the Cruiser itself is a huge improvement all the way around over what we had. VERY HAPPY CAMPERS!!

YMMV though. Good luck on your choice.

[ma crab]

Can't really help you to much because I am new.However had ST for A few weeks and live in Fl. About froze kids at night and during the day very cool with outside temps in high90s. Love the outside kitchen

[Tim D]

Can't speak to heating it in the cold yet but seems to cool down real nice and fairly quick when 90 out. We will see.

[Bobbi]

Originally Posted by mark5w

On the Sunset Trail web site it states that it has Apollo tech insulation. You should call a dealer and see what that is. They might have changed the name from Polar tech to Apollo tech. A call would straighten that out. Good luck with your search. BTW, my Patriot has Polar tech and it seems to work well.

I did one better than contacting a dealer by contacting CR directly via email through their web site. I received no response. I guess I'll have to call.

Thank you for your input.

[hondavalk]

I've gotten the same results with e-mails and phone calls at Crossroads Bobbi.

[Bobbi]

Originally Posted by hondavalk

I've gotten the same results with e-mails and phone calls at Crossroads Bobbi.

Really? Phone calls, too? That's really disappointing, and it also does not make a good impression. We are headed to the Hershey RV show in September. Maybe a CR rep will be there, but I'd rather get my questions answered sooner rather than later. It's not unusual to not get a reply via email, but very unusual to not be able to make contact via phone.

[socoguy]

(Finally got an answer. R value on normal insulation is 9, Apollo Tech is 18)</span>

Found this here on th CR forum searched, Applo tech insulation.

[hondavalk]

Originally Posted by Bobbi

Really? Phone calls, too? That's really disappointing, and it also does not make a good impression. We are headed to the Hershey RV show in September. Maybe a CR rep will be there, but I'd rather get my questions answered sooner rather than later. It's not unusual to not get a reply via email, but very unusual to not be able to make contact via phone.

It is very disappointing. Overall have been very happy with the TT itself but their response or lack of is concerning.

[Hunter11]

RV manufactures can claim all kinds of R values with the added use of foil faced bubble wrap but it all depends on them keeping the correct air gap for it to work as intended. I think they are way over advertising its R value in an RV. As far as adding R9 to the existing insulation I would find that hard to believe.Our unit has the added bubble wrap insulation and I have no doubt it helps but I doubt it is much more than R3 worth.

[Bobbi]

Originally Posted by socoguy

(Finally got an answer. R value on normal insulation is 9, Apollo Tech is 18)</span>

Found this here on th CR forum searched, Applo tech insulation.

Thanks, Socoguy. I did a search and the only thing I found was a statement that the reflective foil Apollo insulation was R-18, but nothing on the basic physical insulation. So does that mean total calculated R-value is R-27? Or are they saying that R-18 is the total calculated value of all insulation with the Apollo included?

I understand that the Apollo insulation is simply reflective foil, so that leaves R-9 for fiberglass. The reflective foil helps a lot in the summer since it reflects heat away, but my understanding is that reflective foil helps little in colder temps. Hmmm.....I was really hoping for at least R-14 fiberglass or foam with the foil.

[Dayle1]

Most RV manufacturers use some brand of foil faced bubble wrap and they also claim much higher R-values than they really achieve. That is not to say the product isn't beneficial, but it is not as effective as an owner might expect based on the claimed R-value numbers. First of all, as Keith pointed out, these products require an air gap to achieve the claimed R value, and that is impossible with a 1-1/2 or 2 inch thick wall, or even worse a 3/4 inch thick slide-out floor. Second, the air gap has to be a dead air space. Well there are so many holes in the average RV, there is no such thing as 'dead air'. Finally, whatever R value is stated will be the 'best case calculated' R value, not the average or the worst. For example, if they state the floor insulation is R27, that will only be the area between the main frame rails with the "sealed underbelly". But that is less than 6 ft of an 8 ft wide trailer floor, so 25% of the floor area has reduced insulation and then the slide-out floors have even less. Then there is the "sealed underbelly" that is supposed to provide dead air space for the bubble wrap, but there are three large holes in the I-beam for each slide-out, one for the holding tank cables and other various smaller holes, so outside air flows freely thru the underbelly.

[mark5w]

I went to purchase a storage shed. One had a similar foil product on the inside of the walls, the other nothing. The difference on a bright sunny day was about 12 degrees. I think more of the benefit is from the reflective foil bouncing the heat out of the Rv than anything. But I'm sure the extra insulation from the bubbles has a good effect also.

[Lloyd]

Originally Posted by Bobbi

What we'd like to hear is feedback from owners regarding the effectiveness of the Polar Tec insulation package. Do you feel it is adequate when it gets very hot? What about when it gets chilly?

Thank you for your valuable feedback. We really appreciate it!

No, I don't feel it's adequate! Yes, I feel you should add it! Whether it's hot or cold out, we need all the help we can get. Lets face it, these RVs don't have enough insulation, period! It probably wouldn't be half so bad if they would do a decent job at the factory when they install it, but, they don't. There are so many spots, spaces, and areas that are missed it's unbelievable.
If I had it to do over again, I would also have the thermo pane windows.

[socoguy]

For sure these units are not houses and present thier challenges insulation wise. Adding insulation to the areas you can access particulally storage compartments is beneficial. I did get the thermo panes and they have the added benifit of deadening outside sound as well.
We all are trying to make it better that is the fun part.

[NorskeNY]

It is all a sales gimic - don't expect an RV to be insulated properly for cold weather use.

[Hunter11]

[It is all a sales gimic]</span>
</span>
Bingo! I find itamusingthat Crossroads list the same insulation Rfactorson the Cruiser as the DRV Mobile Suites and I consider them one of the best insulated units on the market. They also have 3 1/2" thick walls. Again Crossroads is way over estimating the effect of the aluminum bubble pack insulation package. As I said earlier, I am sure it helps some but not to achieve the same insulationvaluesof the upper end units on the market.</span>

[Bobbi]

Originally Posted by Hunter11

RV manufactures can claim all kinds of R values with the added use of foil faced bubble wrap but it all depends on them keeping the correct air gap for it to work as intended. I think they are way over advertising its R value in an RV. As far as adding R9 to the existing insulation I would find that hard to believe.Our unit has the added bubble wrap insulation and I have no doubt it helps but I doubt it is much more than R3 worth.

You are right about that air space with the reflective foil. A rep from a different manufacturer, Heartland, kindly explained that to me. Without a detailed explanation or drawing from CR, we have no idea if that's being done or not, unfortunately.

And then there are the issues inherent with fiberglass insulation that I'm struggling with. No RV is hermetically sealed. My understanding is that if air can pass through the fiberglass insulation, moisture can collect. If moisture collects, then you have the potential for mold.

[Bobbi]

Originally Posted by Hunter11

[It is all a sales gimic]</span>
</span>
Bingo! I find itamusingthat Crossroads list the same insulation Rfactorson the Cruiser as the DRV Mobile Suites and I consider them one of the best insulated units on the market. They also have 3 1/2" thick walls. Again Crossroads is way over estimating the effect of the aluminum bubble pack insulation package. As I said earlier, I am sure it helps some but not to achieve the same insulationvaluesof the upper end units on the market.</span>

I definitely see your point, but my guess is that CR is simply passing along the numbers assigned to the particular product by its manufacturer. And, to my knowledge, they all do that.