ST33PB towing question - Page 2

anaro · 02-11-2015, 05:37 PM

Ok so the others are correct that is way too much trailer for your armada. First off that tt will likely weigh 8800-9300 lbs loaded based upon the average 1000-1500 lbs of stuff people put in trailers. Sadly chairs, dishes, toiletries, clothes, wood, etc add up really quickly. This means you will be looking at a tongue weight of 1100-1400 lbs (ideal tongue weight is 13-15% of loaded tongue weight.). The armada may have a 9000 lb towing capacity but it is limited by its payload. Look inside your drivers door for a tire loading sticker. It will say "occupants and cargo should not exceed x lbs". This is your payload with the options on your armada. Take that number and subtract the weight of all passengers, gear and pets that will be in the armada when towing. What is left on your payload is what is available for tongue weight. On our armada with our family of 3 (our daughter was 4 yrs old at the time), we had an available payload of 810 lbs. Our other limiting factor was the hitch was limited to 910 lbs tongue weight. Our armada was a 2004. I have heard some higher numbers on newer ones but we still had a 9100 lb tow capacity.

Now let me explain how our towing experience went with the armada. We had a 2011 zinger 26bh. It was 30 ft long, had a dry weight of 5700 lbs and a gvwr of 7700 lbs. Per cat scales it weighed 7300 lbs loaded. Our tongue weight was around 1000 lbs. We had a reese dual cam wdh. To say it was a white knuckle experience would be an understatement. I was pushed all over the road by any vehicle that passed me. I had a lot of tail wagging the dog. The final straw came when I went into VA. I struggled up a 7% grade. Coming down that same 7% grade I got pushed down the mountain. I did not have enough tow vehicle to control or stop the trailer. I had a prodigy P3 brake controller properly dialed in, I downshifted my gears, I still got pushed. I had to use my brakes more than I wanted/was trained to do and almost had burnt my brakes out by the bottom. I swore then and there we were staying on flat land until a new tow vehicle could be bought. I didn't even want to flat tow anymore either. By the end of that first season, we had traded for an F250 diesel. It was like a night and day difference. We have tackled that same mountain several times since, both with my f250 and my current 3500 silverado. I don't even need to touch the brakes more than once as the engine kept my speed down. I will never tow at or over limits again.

I would see if you can back out of that trailer or you will need to upgrade your tow vehicle. Sorry but it really is better to hear this now than experience it later. Trust me on that one.

jlongsta · 02-11-2015, 05:48 PM

This probably the best post in this thread.

**mark5w** · 02-11-2015, 05:50 PM

Personal experience is always the best advice.

LeBo · 02-12-2015, 06:50 PM

Great choice for TW

frosty42 · 02-14-2015, 11:26 PM

As others have very well stated, you will be maxed out with your current TV. There are literally thousands of posts in various forums that discuss towing do's & dont's. As a new-comer to Rv'ing but not new to towing, I can tell you that there are certain things not to be taken lightly and that includes your TV.

As a rule of thumb, you should not exceed 80% of your TV's ratings when towing. You have to have that margin of safety. Besides the weight limits and capacities, you have to consider the beating a TV takes when towing. Ball joints, tie rods, suspension, transmission and the engine all share the burdon when towing and will require a religious maintenance schedule to keep everything in good running order. Leave these components neglected, you'll find yourself on the side of the road in short order.

By having a TV that is rated higher than what you will be towing, you begin to give yourself that margin of safety. That's why many folks who tow have HD trucks. Gas or diesel is a personal choice but the critical factor is heavy duty. Everything is beefed up and designed to take the load. Having the right TV, proper accessories and performing required maintenance will ensure that your traveling trips will be enjoyable and trouble-free.

jlongsta · 02-15-2015, 07:26 AM

Excellent post. That is why we own two f250s. One for our boat and one for our travel trailer. We have towed stuff with lesser vehicles and would never do it again.

Jill Lum · 02-15-2015, 11:24 AM

Anaro,
Thank you so much for your honest reply. I guess for our first season we will have to white knuckle it. I'm hoping to upgrade my husbands truck next year. Unfortunately, we can't back out of the camper because I think my family will kill me. If it were just my decision I would keep my hybrid. Loved that camper.

Coopers_dad · 02-15-2015, 11:40 AM

If you can't change your SUV then consider renting another truck to pull your trailer until you can. I know it will seem silly but that trailer will work your armada to death in short order. If your have to climb or descend any hills or mountains it won't be fun.

We hate to give you bad news but most of us have been in your position before. I know I was last year. I rented an f150 for a quick trip only cost me about $300. It's easier now because you only need to fine one with an integrated trailer brake and the first two I found both had them.

anaro · 02-15-2015, 12:27 PM

I know you think you will just white knuckle it but your trailer is even bigger than mine was. I wouldn't even try to tow that with the armada. You will get more money on trade for the armada now than next year and you could trade it for a used 3/4 ton gasser making it more affordable. The only 1/2 ton I would even consider for that trailer would be a max tow HD eco boost and they can be pricey. Sorry to give bad news but I wish someone had said it to me.

anaro · 02-15-2015, 01:42 PM

One thing to be aware of when you do shop for a new tow vehicle, check the sticker inside the door for its actual cargo capacity not it's internet capacity. Even the 3/4 tons can have a low payload if you aren't careful (ie my old f250 diesel had a payload of 1500 lbs, enough for my tt but not my 5er), so shop smart.

RetiredChief · 02-16-2015, 02:46 PM

We purchased a new ST33PB last june and I pull it with a GMC Sierra,it has no trouble pulling it except for wind,wow,it will take that trailer and sway it really bad,the brakes on the trailer are really good compared to the Passport ultalite we had before this trailer,you shouldn't have any problems pulling it,but you will notice it "big times" again on those windy days on the highway......

OhioMark · 02-16-2015, 03:42 PM

Just my 2 cents.

Great advice from the folks here on the forum. The site team members are truly sages of the trailer world! A few years ago I was about to put a deposit on a 32BH but traded emails with folks on a forum similar to this one and ended up with a 300BH that was #1200 lighter. I wasn't about to sell my new truck.

To look at this practically, there's too much trailer for your vehicle. I'm not discounting the towing capacity of your SUV it's what I've called the "Achilles Heal of Half Tons". The manufacturers keep increasing the towing capacities of these trucks/SUVs but you still need to have deal with weight on the hitch. It's like an Olympic weight lifter with bad knees..

Your actual tongue weight will be the issue that you'll have with just about any SUV on a half ton truck frame. Our engineering friends on the forum probably can provide a fancier explanation, but I've learned testing my 300BH when I've been high or over the hitch weight through sloppy loading, the trailer pulls way different than when I redistribute the weight or leave the "stuff" at home.

Jason's earlier post was spot on, "stuff" weighs alot more than you think. I bought a hitch scale and was totally floored at how much I had at the hitch. Think about it..your basement storage, propane, under the bed storage..all towards the front of the trailer. I moved over 200# off the hitch by leaving "stuff" at home or moving "stuff" back in containers over the axles.

I've posted this before, but here's a quick calc guide for towing
http://changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-...eight-tt.shtml

By the way - a WDH and sway control works great, but your ahead of the game if you prevent sway rather than try to control it and remember whatever weight your sending to that hitch is getting distributed forward to vehicle, not "going away" and ultimately deducts from the carrying capacity of your SUV.

It can be confusing..or I'm just easily confused..either way this might help you..I've got a detailed spreadsheet calculator someone sent me a few years ago.

You can find it here.

www.popthetop.com/files/TowingCapacityWorksheet.xls

Good Luck.."May your knuckles never be white when towing in the night"

Tim D · 02-16-2015, 07:11 PM

This is all very good advice. But remember too that it's not just about towing it but stopping it!

OhioMark · 02-16-2015, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim D

This is all very good advice. But remember too that it's not just about towing it but stopping it!

Amen brother.

anaro · 02-16-2015, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim D

This is all very good advice. But remember too that it's not just about towing it but stopping it!

Most definitely learned that one the hard way coming down the mountain. Trailer brakes are only so good.

OhioMark · 02-17-2015, 04:04 AM

Every body continues in a state of rest, or of uniform motion in a straight line, unless it is compelled to change that state by forces impressed upon it.

Issac Newton (1643-1727)

StrikeThis · 02-27-2015, 11:12 AM

I agree was towing a 2007 27ft Fleetwood prowler 5500lbs dry with a 2008 ford expedition 5.4L trailer sway with the short wheelbase is a white knuckle ride to say the least. My Ford F150 5.4L was way more stable but struggled in the mountians of Colorado. We have upgraded to F250 6.2L gas don't even know it's back there anymore. Considering moving up to the Crossroads Longhorn edition 33bh.I believe the Armada short wheel base with that much weight will be a white knuckle ride also...

jlongsta · 02-27-2015, 12:48 PM

We love our F250. Like StrikeThis, we don't even know we have the trailer on. We've plulled up all of the major Colorado passes, Wolf Creek being one of the steepest. No problem. Another feature we love on our new truck is the ability to switch from automatic transmission to 6 speed manual. The gear shifter on on the turning signal. You can change gears with your thumb. Love it for coming down the pass. I do a lot of the driving so I have learned to use the gears in lieu of the brakes. I have driven down major passes and have hardly had to use the breaks.

OhioMark · 02-27-2015, 12:50 PM

Our 11' F150 has the same feature great for towing

p4lrjfd · 02-27-2015, 03:59 PM

Well Jill, if it were me I would definitely look at a more capable tow vehicle. I tow my ST 30RE with a RAM 4X4 Hemi and it is certainly not an enjoyable drive. I do have weight dist/sway control and put air bags on tow vehicle. Gets a little uncomfortable in strong cross winds or when a semi pulls up behind and passes. You have a longer/heavier TT, a TV with a shorter wheelbase. Anyway .... my thoughts.

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