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Old 11-17-2010, 07:42 AM   #1
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I have wanted to get my Cruiser weighed for a long time, but haven't gotten around to it because it was inconvenient. Last week I finally got to it. I was certain that the Cruiser was not overloaded, but I wanted especially to get individual weights on each axle. My rig has always rode about 3 inches high in the front as measured at the bottom of the frame. It tows like a dream but I was sure that the out of level condition was effecting the overall weight distribution. I have already done all the available adjustments to the hitch and pin box to level the trailer and 3 inches is the best I can get without raising the whole trailer.











Many of you may recall that Iposted aboutmy failed rear axle and repair last spring. Which is another reasonI wanted to get individual axle weights.



So off to the scales I went last week with the trailer loaded for my next trip. Also had full propane tanks, potable water tank at 1/3 , gray and black water tanks empty. The weigths are as follows.



Total Cruiser weight 10,492 lbs vs GVWR capacity of 11,760. 1268 lbs under max.



Font axle 3700 lbs vs GAWR capacity of 5200 lbs. 1500 lbs under max.



Rear axle 4580 lbs vs GAWR capacity of 5200 lbs 620 lbs under max.



Pin weight 2212 lbs vs advertised dry weight of 1600 lbs. 612 lbs over dry weight.



I also weighed the trailer on each side. The total weight on the curb side axles was 120 lbs less than the street side weight. Insignificant difference!



I was nottoo surprized to see that the rear axle was carrying 880 lbs more than the front axle.

I was a little surprized that the side to side weights were so close sincethe 30SK has 2 of the 3slides and all the appliances on the street side. I expecteddifference to be greater.



I did not expect to see my pin weight 612lbs over the dry pin weight. I suppose that is also a result of my high in the front condition.If the front axle was carring more of the loadI expect the pin weight would be less.



So I thought I would share this info as it may be helpful to some of you, especially you 30SK pullers.



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Old 11-17-2010, 08:45 AM   #2
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Very interesting...and detailed...
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Old 11-17-2010, 11:42 AM   #3
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Kurt:
I think it would be just the opposite. If you had it "low" in front, you would be transferring more weight to the pin because it is leaning that way. So you must have a lot of weight up front (storage compartment) or what ever, to be that heavy on the pin with it high on the nose. As far as axles, high in front will give you exactly what you ---more weight on the rear axle.


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Old 11-17-2010, 12:35 PM   #4
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I'm wondering what those weights are at 60mph ?? The wind pushing on the cap what's the down force factor ? Hmm
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:04 PM   #5
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Kurt, I, like you, have wanted to do this as well. I just never got around to it! I have the same rig so the numbers were probably more interesting to me. Do you have anything out of the ordinary in the front that would cause such a high weight on the pin?

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Old 11-17-2010, 02:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Farmer
Kurt:
I think it would be just the opposite. If you had it "low" in front, you would be transferring more weight to the pin because it is leaning that way. So you must have a lot of weight up front (storage compartment) or what ever, to be that heavy on the pin with it high on the nose. As far as axles, high in front will give you exactly what you ---more weight on the rear axle.


Lloyd, you know that is exactly what I thought as well. But after seeing these numbers it got me thinking. Most of the weight is supported on two points, the pin and the rear axle. With the front axle carrying far less than the rear. Now I'm thinnkigthat if the front axle was carrying more of the load as it would if the rig was level then the pin weight would be less. 880 lbs is a pretty signiicant difference in weight distribution on the axles that are only 33 inches apart. Anyway, I guess the only way to know for sure is to raise my trailer or have someone else with a lower truck weigh it. Neither of those things are going to happen anytime soon.



Stan, All I have in the front that was not stock is the JT Strong stabilizers anda second battery that is about 80 extra pounds. The rest is the usual camping things, chairs,rugs, hoses, barbeque, 5 plastic storage containers with misc stuff. None of those containers weighs more than 30 lbs. The bedroom closet and dresserhave clothes. I only have about 1300 lbs of additional weight total in the rig including the 20 or so gallons of water in my fresh water tank. That iscomparing the factory weight to my current total weight.



Bottom line is that towing out of level does impact load distribution more than I thought.
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Old 11-17-2010, 11:49 PM   #7
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Ya know Kurt, you are probably right. If it was a single axle trailer, it would work the way I said, but being a tandem, it more then likely is lifting the front end and transferring weight to the kingpin.

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Old 11-18-2010, 01:45 AM   #8
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The 165 lbs of water in your rear-mounted fresh water tank should help lower the pin weight also, however it probably adds to the rear axle weight.
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Old 11-18-2010, 02:10 AM   #9
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I weighed our rig this fall before heading up to camp. I was always curious also. There probably aren't many 26RK owners out there but if there is a few, here is what I came up with.
Loaded and full of water.
Total..................15680
camper..............8480
truck..................7200
pin weight.........1820
steering axle/camper...4080
rear axle/camper.........4940
I run my hitch back about 4--8 in. from where it is suppose to be strictly because I like it there for the ride. I suppose if it was back where it's suppose to be, the weights would change.


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Old 11-18-2010, 02:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemac377
The 165 lbs of water in your rear-mounted fresh water tank should help lower the pin weight also, however it probably adds to the rear axle weight.


a

Dale, I agree. I could add more water in the tank, but I don't need to carry any more than a third of a tank and I don't want to add any more weight to the rear axle.



My trailerweights are all within the max allowed and theCruiser tows well so Iprobably won'traise her up forweigh distribution. Nowit would be nice to have moreclearance between my truckbed rails and the bottom of the Cruiser overhang. But that is an issue for another day.



Given the rear axle failure I had this spring, my main reason for weighing the rig was to make sure I did not have that rear axle overloaded and it is not.



Well I've got to go do a brake job on our other cruiser, my wife's PT Cruiser, before the snow hits.
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Old 11-18-2010, 02:28 AM   #11
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Do all the trailers of this model ride high in the front?

If not, what's causing your's to do so? Your TV looks stock (no oversized tires), the trailer doesn't seem to be overloaded (however that rear axle weight would bother me).... have you determined the cause of the problem?





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Old 11-18-2010, 08:24 AM   #12
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I don't understand the difference in axle weights. Even with the unit nose high, the equalizer should shift loading from the rear axle to the front axle by changing the length and curve of the leaf springs. If a unit is seriously out of level, then the equalizer will be at it's travel limit. But being 3 inches out of level shouldn't be a problem. If that 3" is over a distance of maybe 20-25 ft, then between the axle spacing, the difference is pretty minimal.



Now if you had rubber torsion axles or my Mor/ryde suspension, then the axles are fully independent and then being out of level definately impacts axle loading.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:50 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeb
Do all the trailers of this model ride high in the front?

If not, what's causing your's to do so? Your TV looks stock (no oversized tires), the trailer doesn't seem to be overloaded (however that rear axle weight would bother me).... have you determined the cause of the problem?


Jeb, It's not the trailer, it's the height of my truck. The newerDodge 4x4's and I think Ford's as well are higher in the bed than they used to be and higher than the Chevys. Therewas a lot of discussion about this on our old forum and other forums. Crossroads and other manufacturers were a little slow in recognizing this as a problem for their customers. So many of the fifth wheels just weren't high enough in their chassis to match up to our trucks. From reading some of the threads on this forum, it sounds like Crossroads has nowaddreesed this problem byputing longer,adjustable spring hangers and in some cases 16 inch wheels on the newer trailers.



In my signature picture everything on the truck and trailer were bone stock. It is hard to tell in the pic (probably because it was taken from the rear) but the trailer was 3 inches high in the front then. Since then I put larger tires on the truck which raisedit 1 inch. To offset the additional height I moved the pinbox up1 inch to it's top position. So I am still 3 inches high in the front.



Have I determined the cause of the problem?? Yes!The trailer is riding 3 inches high in the front!
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:37 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Dayle1
I don't understand the difference in axle weights. Even with the unit nose high, the equalizer should shift loading from the rear axle to the front axle by changing the length and curve of the leaf springs. If a unit is seriously out of level, then the equalizer will be at it's travel limit. But being 3 inches out of level shouldn't be a problem. If that 3" is over a distance of maybe 20-25 ft, then between the axle spacing, the difference is pretty minimal.

Now if you had rubber torsion axles or my Mor/ryde suspension, then the axles are fully independent and then being out of level definately impacts axle loading.


Larry, I too thought that the equalizers would evenly distribute the weight between axles. That's why they are named equalizers, right?? But my experience with this trailer and the weights on the axles indicate that it just aint so. Wish it were.



Right from day one with this trailer it was obvious to me that it was carrying more weight on the rear axles, even when it was empty when I picked it up new. With all tires at 65 PSI, the rear tires have always been flexed a little more than the fronts andthey were a little warmer to touch after traveling down the road. To get confirmation, I bought an infared temperature gage. Sure enough the rears consistantly run 5-10 degrees warmer than the fronts. The rears also were wearing faster than the fronts, so after about 7-8,000 miles I switched them. The scales last week justput a number to what I already knew.



My equaflex equalizers are not binding. They do rotate as the weight is shifted. I can watch that happen while just running the jacking gear up and down.Plus I checked them out when Ireplaced the rear axle. The floorplan on the 30SK doesn't really have a lot of areas to load behind the axles. The water tank is the biggest and the cabinets under the entertainment center are probably second. You can't put muchin the tiny overhead cabinets in the rear. The 3 inch high in the front is measured at the bottom of the frameover 24 feet. Maybe the 3 inches over that distance "shouldn't be a problem" butIT IS. That is the purpose of my post. To inform others who may be towing in a similar or even more nose high condition that it may be time to get that puppy weighed.
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Old 11-18-2010, 02:11 PM   #15
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Gotcha! I was looking at the photo and didn't see it.






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Old 11-18-2010, 09:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Farmer
I run my hitch back about 4--8 in. from where it is suppose to be strictly because I like it there for the ride. I suppose if it was back where it's suppose to be, the weights would change.


I'm curious regarding this comment. Do you mean that the centerline of your Kingpin is about 4 to 8 inches behind the rear axle centerline?
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Old 11-19-2010, 12:41 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Ridgeman
Larry, I too thought that the equalizers would evenly distribute the weight between axles. That's why they are named equalizers, right??¬* But my experience with this trailer and the weights on the axles indicate that it just aint so. Wish it were.

¬*

Right from day one with this trailer it was obvious to me that it was carrying more weight on the rear axles, even when it was empty when I picked it up new.¬* With all tires at 65 PSI, the rear tires have always been flexed a little more than the fronts and¬*they were a little warmer to touch after traveling down the road.¬* To get confirmation, I bought an infared temperature gage. Sure enough the rears consistantly run 5-10 degrees warmer than the fronts. The rears also were wearing faster than the fronts, so after about 7-8,000 miles I switched them. The scales last week just¬*put a number to what I already knew.

¬*

My equaflex equalizers are not binding. They do rotate as the weight is shifted. I can watch that happen while just running the jacking gear up and down.¬*Plus I checked them out when I¬*replaced the rear axle. The floorplan on the 30SK doesn't really have a lot of areas to load behind the axles. The water tank is the biggest and the cabinets under the entertainment center are probably second. You can't put much¬*in the tiny overhead cabinets in the rear. The 3 inch high in the front is measured at the bottom of the frame¬*over 24 feet. Maybe the 3 inches over that distance "shouldn't be a problem" but¬*IT IS. That is the purpose of my post. ¬*To inform others who may be towing in a similar or even more nose high condition that it may be time to get that puppy weighed. ¬*


Not questioning your data or experience, just wondering what is going on. So, 3" high over 24 ft means there is a height difference of 1/32" between the axle centers. That seems pretty minor. When you look at the equalizer, it should appear almost perfectly vertical with such a small variation in frame height. Is that really the case? If not, what happens when you are unhooked from the truck and you use the front jacks to get the frame perfectly level, is the equalizer vertical then?



The floorplan has little weight behind the axles, so that doesn't explain extra weight on the rear axle either. I wonder if by mistake, the front axle has 5200 lb springs while the rear axle is accidentally equiped with 6000 lb springs, that would certainly give the results you are seeing. If this is the case, the equalizer would appear vertical even though the rear axle is carrying over 800 lbs more than the front axle.
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Old 11-19-2010, 06:12 AM   #18
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Larry, My math is a littledifferent than yours. The axles are about 3 ft(33 inches)apart. 3 ft is 1/8 of 24 ft. 1/8 of 3 inches is 3/8 of an inch. More than 1/32 inch, but still,as you said, pretty minor.















After reading your last post, I just went out to the trailer which is sitting on a flat, level, concrete garage floor to check the equalizers as you suggested. When the rig is level and the frame is exactly the same height in front and back, the equqalizers are perfectly vertical and the spring shackles attached to the equalizer are the same distance below the frame.



Then I lifted the front with my landingjacks until it was 3 inches high in the front, just as it is when it is hooked to my truck. The equalizers were then slightly rolled toward the rear on the bottom. The rear springshackle attached tothe equalizer was then 1/2 inch closer to the frame( higher)than the front spring shackle. I think that is the way they are supposed to work.



Your spring theory makes sense to me. If the springs were mismatched how can you tell? The last time I looked at the springs for a label, all I found was a made in Chine tag. For that matter the springs could be out of spec. Having said that, if they were different capacity, wouldn't the equalizer be out of vertical when the trailer was level?



Maybe we are just overthinking this issue. It is what it is! I just no longer believe that the equalizers actually balance the weight between the 2 axles. Would be interesting to see some documentation on the function of equalizers. I haven't seen any, have you?
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Old 11-19-2010, 08:31 AM   #19
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Larry, My math is a little¬*different than yours. The axles are about 3 ft(33 inches)¬*apart. 3 ft is 1/8 of 24 ft.¬*¬* 1/8 of 3 inches is 3/8 of an inch.¬* More than 1/32 inch, but still,as you said, pretty minor.



After reading your last post, I just went out to the trailer which is sitting on a flat, level, concrete garage floor to check the equalizers as you suggested. When the rig is level and the frame is exactly the same height in front and back, the equqalizers are perfectly vertical and the spring shackles attached to the equalizer are the same distance below the frame.

¬*

Then I¬* lifted the front with my landing¬*jacks until it was 3 inches high in the front, just as it is when it is hooked to my truck. The equalizers were then slightly rolled toward the rear on the bottom. The rear spring¬*shackle attached to¬*the equalizer was then 1/2 inch closer to the frame( higher)¬*than the front spring shackle. I think that is the way they are supposed to work.

¬*

Your spring theory¬* makes sense to me. If the springs were mismatched how can you tell? The last time I looked at the springs for a label, all I found was a made in Chine tag. For that matter the springs could be out of spec. Having said that, if they were different capacity, wouldn't the equalizer be out of vertical when the trailer was level?

¬*

Maybe we are just overthinking this issue. It is what it is! I just no longer believe that the equalizers actually balance the weight between the 2 axles. Would be interesting to see some documentation on the function of equalizers. I haven't seen any, have you?


Your math is right, guess I needed a second cup of coffee this morning. When the trailer is level, since both springs are the same length eye-bolt to eye-bolt, same curvature and same height, then they should be carrying the same weight. But in reality, same weight as a percentage of their capacity. If when level the rear axle is still carrying about 800 lbs more than the front, then very likely it has 6000 lb spring packs.



Your description of the equalizer sounds right. Again, both leaf springs should have the same curvature, but since the fixed points are no longer the same distance from the ground, the other point has to shift so that the rear axle is closer to the frame and the front one is closer to the ground. But this has nothing to do with why the axles are carrying different weights, in fact if both spring packs are 5200 lb capacity, then extra weight on the rear axle should shift the equalizer even more, but this would be difficult to determine.



I don't believe there is much visual difference between 5200 lb and 6000 lb springs and frequently 6K axles are included with 16" tire/wheel upgrades, so I think it would be an ez mistake to have mis-matched springs.



You know the rear axle is carrying almost 900 lbs more when 3" out of level. The equalizer should be doing its job and there should be no significant difference in axle weights level or 3" out of level. Here is a way to prove me wrong. Your RBW hitch should have a height adjustment, my Reese has 4 sets of holes with a difference of 1-1/4 inches between each set. If the weight scales you used are level with a good level parking area, then re-weigh the trailer axle weights, but just prior to pulling onto the scale, lower the hitch head two slots. This should drop the pin about 2-1/2 inches, the front of the frame should drop about 2 inches and the rear rise about 2 inches for a total of 4 inches. The front will now be 1 inch low instead of 3 inches high. If being out of level is the problem, then the front axle weight will now be about 300 lbs more than the rear axle. If mis-matched springs is the problem, then the rear axle will still be about 700-750 lbs more than the front axle even though the front is 1 inch low. Of course, re-set the hitch height before towing.



To answer this specific question. "if they were different capacity, wouldn't the equalizer be out of vertical when the trailer was level?" When the equalizer is working as it is supposed to, when the unit is level, the equalizer will also be level. This will be true with matched or mis-matched leaf springs. The only thing that will change with mis-matched springs is that the axle weights will not match.



Keep in mind that if the rear springs are 6K units, while they are not overloaded any more than the front 5200 lb springs, the rear tires will always be carrying that extra 900 lbs and subject to more wear and failure.
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Old 11-19-2010, 09:07 AM   #20
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Larry,

My hitch is a Reese signature head slider on round slider tubes so it is higher than most. It is already as low as it will go and already puts my overhang uncomfortably close to my truck siderails. I don't know what the weight is on axles when the trailer is level because I can't get it level with my truck.



Besides even if I could lower the hitch, I would not hook up my rig and drive 60 miles RToff the mountain to the scale to prove you wrong. Or even to determine if my rear springs are 6K springs. As long as I know my rear axle is not overloaded, and it isnot, and my rig tows nicely, it's not worth it to me to do any more. It is what it is!
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