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Old 04-22-2019, 06:19 AM   #1
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from excitement to disappointment

recently purchased a z-1 225td16, was so excited to be able to haul my toys outside and have an actual living space that doesnt have to be shared with oil and gas. i did quite a lot of research into the models and was pretty confident my 07 tundra would haul it once setup correctly.
yesterday i had my excitement shattered when i borrowed a hitch scale so i could make sure i am operating safely and within the limits of my truck.
everything i read said the tongue weight should be around 600 lbs give or take a little. weighed it dry and it was at 800!
to make matters worse, i really wanted to be able to haul my motorcycle which is almost 800 lbs, and that with only one half full propane tank and a single battery!
i knew i was going to be close, and had found that a similar model that once the fresh water tank was filled it would drop approx 80 lbs off the tongue. thinking that coupled with adding a generator, and a few items on the back it would get me right where i need to be. but filled the fw tank and nothing changed on the tongue.

now ive been scratching my head trying to figure out a way to shift the pivot point of the axles up slightly or another way to drop some tongue weight down so i can actually haul my toys! also wondering if i have the axles moved a couple inches fwd, how much difference it would make, and if its worth it. i wouldnt be able to go far, as the entry steps are already close, but i could gain about 2-3 inches fwd and possibly counterbalance some tw.

my thought is of course to now move the propane tanks and begrudgingly the battery to the rear, build a custom bumper so these will be safe and secure.
i had planned on adding a class 3 hitch on the rear to haul the gennie and some other items, but really didnt want to move the tanks and especially the battery to the rear.

im welcoming some ideas on other things i may be able to do to make this work. i cant afford to go and get a different truck so have to work with what i have. i did some searching on here too.
my tow vehicle states 1475 cargo and passengers, so really puts me at close to 1150 of tongue weight.
i have a weight distribution hitch btw.
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Old 04-22-2019, 07:31 AM   #2
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I take it you have a 2016 Z1 225TD?? Specs show 642 lb tongue weight. That leaves your truck capable of another 833 lbs of cargo including more tongue weight. Pretty extreme to do an axle relocate. I think you’re going to have to play around with placement of battery and tanks. Could you not relocate them close to back of deck at front wall of camper? WD hitch does not change towing capacity of truck, just what hitch is capable of safely towing. Placing motorcycle on deck halfway between axles and hitch will add 400 lbs to tongue. That leaves 433 for truck cargo and passengers. It adds up quick. Fresh water tanks are usually located above axles so no change in tongue weight is correct.
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Old 04-22-2019, 08:02 AM   #3
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Hello and welcome to the forum.

I would go ahead and load the trailer as you would to use it. Start with the inside - everything you would take to go camping for a weekend. Then add your motorcycle loading it as far back as possible and any other things you would take. Fill water tank and gas tanks. Then weigh it. This will give a "real world weight". Then you can start trying to move things to reduce the tongue weight.

Another thought - Do you have access to a truck stop or even a farmers coop that has a truck scale. You could weigh the truck and trailer then weigh just the truck and this would give you a more accurate weight. The scales can weigh the steer drive and trailer axles so you will know what weight is where and your GCW.

Just a personal opinion you have a lot of trailer for your truck. But when armed with some accurate weights you can probably make it work.

One last thing - You might want to check about moving the propane tanks to the rear as I believe it against federal law. If you were to get rear-ended they would blow up. That's why they are mounted on the tongue or on a 5th wheel the front frame.
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Old 04-22-2019, 09:34 AM   #4
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thanks for the input.
yes its a 2016 Z1 225TD
i dont understand why the specs showed 642 for the tw and im coming up with right at 800 lbs.
i borrowed an actual tongue scale from a trailer shop to check it out with different loads.
i first loaded my 2 small jetskis on the deck putting the heavier of the 2 closest to the rear of the deck. the combined weight of them is right at 550 lbs. oddly enough this actually added the full 550 lbs to the tongue! (total now at 1350lbs) my understanding is that it would be proportionate to how far forward the weight would be to the tongue. however this was not the case.

then removed the heavier of the 2 and the tongue weight dropped down to 1050. even though it was right up close to the rear of the deck, it didnt make a difference on the tw where it was placed.

i need to load the bike on the deck and check it out also. but didnt have a chance before having to give the scale back.
maybe i can try again over next weekend.


the scale is quite a hike from me to be able to get a total weight on the camper or the truck. but being the specs on the camper put me well under the towing capacity of the truck, i seriously doubt i'll add 3300 lbs of cargo to the total.

as far as relocation, i looked up about the propane tanks, from what i read, as long as they are secured to either the front or the back, its fine, since they are the dot type 20lb cylinders.

believe me i dont want to have the axles moved forward as this would be a rather large expense, and without knowing how much it will effect the tw in making it to light, just to many variables.. lol
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Old 04-22-2019, 11:36 AM   #5
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[QUOTE=dagst1;137269

One last thing - You might want to check about moving the propane tanks to the rear as I believe it against federal law. If you were to get rear-ended they would blow up. That's why they are mounted on the tongue or on a 5th wheel the front frame.[/QUOTE]


I would agree with Dan on this. BUT, I did some more reading and came up with a lot of conflicting info.
You probably should check with the DOT.
Here is a link to some conflicting opinions. The last one on the very bottom was interesting.
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/f...print/true.cfm
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Old 04-22-2019, 01:05 PM   #6
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thanks again for the helpful info. it is a bit confusing on the tanks. however i found this on rv share ultimate guide to propane tanks
"While ASME tanks are affixed to the frame of a motorhome and take up part of the exterior storage of the RV, DOT cylinders are often kept outside of the RV on the trailer tongue or bumper. Because of this, many RVs have RV propane tank covers to protect the cylinders from road grime and weather conditions."

theres more about d.o.t. tank holders etc.. on there.
i read the link you attached, and even attempted to follow the links, but it just gets carried away. if need be i will call a local propane company who should know the laws about mounting do's and dont's.
also i see food trucks with the tanks mounted on the rear bumpers all the time here in florida.

i called crossroads today to find out if there was something i missed with regards to tongue weight and specs. after speaking to someone, they looked up my model and year, and informed me that 800lbs was correct.
she said that the capacity and specs of these things are subject to change without notice. lol they would not make any recommendations as to lightening up the tongue weight, and said those would be modifications they would not get involved with.
i was also told to buy a bigger truck or a smaller motorcycle. ha!

anyway, i stopped by a friends fab shop and asked about mounting a larger stronger rear bumper and a hitch. so it looks like thats the road i will be going down. jeeze! time to break out the wallet again!
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Old 04-22-2019, 01:47 PM   #7
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Found this on another forum.


Quote:
ANSI A119.2/NFPA 1192 STANDARD ON RECREATIONAL VEHICLES
2-2.3 Location of LP-Gas Containers. LP-Gas containers shall be in accordance with the following:

(a) LP-Gas containers shall not be installed nor shall provisions be made for installing or storing any LP-Gas containers, even temporarily, inside any recreational vehicle. Containers shall not be mounted on the exterior of the rear wall or the rear bumper of the vehicle.

Exception: New LP-Gas cylinders that have never contained LP-Gas supplied as original equipment, shall be permitted to be transported inside the vehicle.

(b) LP-Gas containers with their control valves shall be installed in compliance with one of the following:
(1) In a recess or compartment other than the roof that is vaportight to the inside of the recreational vehicle.
(3) Tanks mounted on the chassis or to the floor of a motor home or chassis-mount camper, provided neither the tank or its support is located in front of the front axle. Tanks mounted between the front and rear axle shall be installed with as much road clearance as practical but not lower than the front axle height. Tanks mounted behind the rear axle of a motor home or chassis-mount camper shall be installed in such a manner that the bottom of the tank and any connection thereto shall not be lower than either the rear axle (excluding the differential) or any section of the frame immediately to the rear of the tank, whichever is higher. All clearances shall be determined from the bottom of the tank or from the lowest fitting, support, or attachment on the tank or tank housing, which ever is lower when all axles are loaded to their gross axles weight rating.
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Old 04-22-2019, 02:03 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by mark5w View Post
Found this on another forum.
thanks!

i made a phone call to propane.com to find out more. i was told by there safety administrator that ANSI/NFPA do not regulate or mandate d.o.t. rules and regulations. i was also told that because the tanks are considered d.o.t tanks it falls completely under there regulation.
she said, there is nothing illegal or against any federal regulations to mount the tanks in a proper holder on the rear of the rv.
she gave me a link to d.o.t document 49cfr and said if its not in there, youre in the clear.
she did say the 20lb cylinders are very strong, you could shoot at them and they wont explode. she also went on to say the impact of a vehicle on a cylinder would damage the vehicle long before the tank would be compromised.

im still going to find out from d.o.t if i can.
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Old 04-22-2019, 03:04 PM   #9
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Glad you found your answer.
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Old 04-22-2019, 03:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by extreemthrottle View Post
thanks for the input.

yes its a 2016 Z1 225TD

i dont understand why the specs showed 642 for the tw and im coming up with right at 800 lbs.

i borrowed an actual tongue scale from a trailer shop to check it out with different loads.

i first loaded my 2 small jetskis on the deck putting the heavier of the 2 closest to the rear of the deck. the combined weight of them is right at 550 lbs. oddly enough this actually added the full 550 lbs to the tongue! (total now at 1350lbs) my understanding is that it would be proportionate to how far forward the weight would be to the tongue. however this was not the case.



then removed the heavier of the 2 and the tongue weight dropped down to 1050. even though it was right up close to the rear of the deck, it didnt make a difference on the tw where it was placed.



i need to load the bike on the deck and check it out also. but didnt have a chance before having to give the scale back.

maybe i can try again over next weekend.





the scale is quite a hike from me to be able to get a total weight on the camper or the truck. but being the specs on the camper put me well under the towing capacity of the truck, i seriously doubt i'll add 3300 lbs of cargo to the total.



as far as relocation, i looked up about the propane tanks, from what i read, as long as they are secured to either the front or the back, its fine, since they are the dot type 20lb cylinders.



believe me i dont want to have the axles moved forward as this would be a rather large expense, and without knowing how much it will effect the tw in making it to light, just to many variables.. lol


Specs on camper are just under 6000 lbs and 3400 lb cargo carrying capacity. Problem here is your truck is limited in its CCC at the 1475. When you had your tongue at 1350 lbs it means you have 125lb left to add in truck. You in truck puts it over, maybe?
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