Hill Country plumbing problems

rmercer · 03-09-2015, 04:48 PM

I just bought a 2015 Hill Country BH. I have a problem with the gray water from the kitchen faucet and half bath lavatory draining into the black water tank of the half bath. Nothing is going into the gray tank. The black tank fills within a day or two of use and then backs up into the toilet, lavatory and kitchen sink. I have had the trailer in Explorer USA service for warranty work twice now. The first time they told me it was fixed. Then it happened again on the very next outing. It is back at Explorer USA again for the second time, and now Explorer USA is telling me Crossroads says this is the way it is designed. According to the brochure for the RV, there are four 40 gal tanks, and crossroads sent me the plumbing schematics and sure enough the schematics shows there to be four 40 gal tanks.
I find what Explorer USA is telling me very hard to believe. Anybody out there with the same problem on any Crossroads RV?

Dayle1 · 03-09-2015, 06:59 PM

If there are 4 tanks, then there should also be 4 valves. If you do not have 4 valves, then maybe one of the tanks is missing and that is why everything is going into the black tank. As you probably already know, the black tank is directly below the toilet. The 4th tank should be located forward of the black tank.

If anyone wants to use the "subject to change without notice" statement and claim a change was made, don't accept that excuse. Two sinks draining into a black tank is not acceptable.

Tim D · 03-09-2015, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dayle1

If anyone wants to use the "subject to change without notice" statement and claim a change was made, don't accept that excuse. Two sinks draining into a black tank is not acceptable.

Black tank backing up into anything other than the toilet is unacceptable! Period!

rmercer · 03-09-2015, 07:23 PM

Thanks Tim,

I can't imagine Crossroads letting this go. I am calling them tomorrow. One thing for sure, once I get my warranty work completed....if I do get it completed, I am done with Explore USA. You are the most important person in the world until they get your money, but service work lacks a whole lot to be desired. Those guys act like they don't like their job and customers are just a pain in the a**.

**Lloyd** · 03-09-2015, 07:27 PM

When you call CR, ask them if there is some other dealer/place you can get your warranty work done.
They have allowed that in the past for some of the other members.

rmercer · 03-10-2015, 03:42 PM

Thanks to all,
I talked to CR today, supposedly they are calling EXP USA today and get the situation handled. We'll see

Bigguy · 03-23-2015, 01:55 PM

I'm in between nego and paying. I'd like to know how this was resolved...I'm getting a HC32RL and I will certainly check that out.

Ron and Jeanette
Kerrville, Texas

rmercer · 03-23-2015, 02:49 PM

Well......CR sent me their schematics on the plumbing system. Unfortunately, the design is such that the kitchen sink is plumbed into the rear black tank to the 1/2 bath. In short, neither CR or Explore USA will do anything about it. In fact, the service rep for CR put me in to a higher up, I left a message but no one ever called back, but by the time I got that far I was pretty PO'd.
There are four 40 gallon tanks, but the only thing plumbed into the rear gray tank is the outdoor kitchen, that's right...a 40 gallon gray tank for an out door sink. I believe I would fire the person that designed the system in such a way The design is such that it would cost me upwards of $2000 or more to have the problem corrected where the kitchen sink would drain into the rear gray tank, of course Explore USA didn't even offer a discount.
If thinking of buying a Crossroads, call CR and ask for the schematics. Obviously, the dealership doesn't know enough about the product to tell you one way or the other. In fact, you may want one regardless of what brand you look at.
I also, checked with Camping World, they had never heard of such a thing, although he did say plumbing the lavatory sink into the black tank is common, simply because the black tank doesn't get enough water for each flush. he confirmed also, it would be fairly expensive to correct.

Dayle1 · 03-25-2015, 12:08 PM

I can understand your frustration and I can see that it is a big technical problem. I'm guessing that the 1/2 bath sink drains into the black tank, but that is the minor problem. I have one suggestion that you might want to check into. The outdoor sink has to have a flexible drain hose, since it moves but it's gray tank does not. Maybe a 'Tee' could be adding into that hose and another flex hose run back to the kitchen sink. A 1 inch or 1-1/2 inch hose would be sufficient for such a drain. Depending on where the 'Tee' is located will determine how to route the new line. But best choice would be to drop the belly wrap, place the 'Tee' as close to the gray tank inlet as possible and run the new hose inside the frame and strapped to a floor joist to keep it as high as possible. One issue with this would be over filling the tank and having the waste water back up in the outdoor sink.

rmercer · 03-25-2015, 12:32 PM

Thanks for the input Larry, I'll certainly look into your suggestion.

johnboytoo · 03-25-2015, 12:49 PM

I have a REAL problem with anything other than toilet going into a black tank !!!

To heck with filling up so fast, what about the 'cleanliness' of that ?!?! Any of the traps/vents/etc.. fail and you have a health issue on your hand...

With 4 tanks, is it 2 black and 2 grey ?

I know with multiple grey tanks I've put an exterior valve on the exit so I can close it and open the two grey tanks and the water will seek it's own level thus using 2 tanks as one larger one,
but not sure you could (or would want to) do that with two blanks tanks as the possibility of 'non-liquids' creating an issue is there

And sorry to hear you bought from ExploderUSA, they are getting a real reputation

So far in my travels, no one has had a good experience with that sales only outlets !

Bigguy · 03-25-2015, 01:10 PM

I think that's a great idea too, so let's call it Larry's plumbing mod now.

I'm probably sporting a big 'ol grin right now, we found out today we got some great terms on the trailer and we are going ahead with the deal on the 32RL. And now I have a reason to crawl under it, open 'er up, and touch her inside! I guess I'm about to get my first stern warning from the site team for that one!

Ron and Jeanette Jamilkowski
HC32RL behind a stock '13 Ram 1500 (doin' all it can)
Kerrville, Texas (not Taxes)

rmercer · 03-25-2015, 01:24 PM

Yes, it has four tanks. Guess I'll let is stay as is for a while and just make sure it is dumped before it starts backing up, which you should do anyway. But, it's just the thought that a black tank can back up into a kitchen sink that bugs me. And what bugs me more is CR thinks this is OK, and although the Hill Country is made expressly for Explore USA, E-USA won't accept any responsibility either.

mneuman · 09-08-2015, 02:31 PM

I wouldn't buy another crossroads RV if my life depended on it. I have had nothing but issues with this 5th wheel. I bought it about one year ago and immediately had issue. It is a 2015 Hill Country 34BH. I have had circuit wiring corrode and fail, wiring was stapled above the header on a slide out and lights shorted out, incorrect flooring was used and floors swelled on the slide outs and wouldn't close, shy light over shower pealed off, couch cushion broke and sags down, hot water heater failed, LED light strip went out, dinette table is warped, light above table wouldn't tighten enough fell and shattered, roof front cap pealed off from roof, and propane hose for the outdoor kitchen and bbq pit wasn't long enough. I know I am missing something but here is the thing. I called for an appointment on May 12th couldn't bring it in until June 6th and it is now September 8th and my trailer is still in the shop. I have talked to the dealer owner I get the corporate speech from him telling me that it is the factories problem and I spoke to the factory and they are saying they sent the parts and it is the dealers problem. I was never offered an loaner in the meantime I had to raise hec just to get it back for a couple weeks in the summer so i couldn't try and use it. I canceled several trips because it is in the shop. Even if I hadn't taken it for a couple of weeks the parts were not there for them to work on it. I have been offered nothing for my trouble from anyone during this just that this is the way it is. Meanwhile i continue to make the loan payment. I hope not all manufacturers and dealers are this poor. When the sale is made they could care less and will not stand behind their product.

mneuman · 09-08-2015, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmercer

Yes, it has four tanks. Guess I'll let is stay as is for a while and just make sure it is dumped before it starts backing up, which you should do anyway. But, it's just the thought that a black tank can back up into a kitchen sink that bugs me. And what bugs me more is CR thinks this is OK, and although the Hill Country is made expressly for Explore USA, E-USA won't accept any responsibility either.

You are correct Explore USA is not any better they will not stand behind their products.

rmercer · 09-08-2015, 04:10 PM

Mneuman,It turned out I was never able to get the problem solved. Cross Roads rep was all sympathetic and understood my problem and seemed to want to work with me, but as you say, kept putting it back on the dealer who kept putting it back on the manufacturer. Then the rep said he would send Explore the schematics to the plumbing. Explore called me after it was received and said that RV plumbing was designed so the kitchen sink, half bath sink and toilet all drained into the rear black tank, and the rear gray tank (40 gal) designed strictly for the outdoor kitchen sink, which as I say up to that time had never been used. I called the MFG rep who sent me a copy copy of the schematics, and sure enough the gray water from the indoor kitchen is plumbed right into the rear black tank as is the rear half bath sink and toilet, E-USA said they may be able to go in and fix the problem but re-routing plumbing was a very expensive endeavor since CR would not cover the repair due to design.
I called CR, talked to same rep again, he said he would check with design dept and get back to me. Got and email from him, all he said was, "it was designed that way, and nothing could be done". Never could get a return call or email after that from CR. Even tried going further up the ladder, but no response AT ALL from the Mfg. While all this was going on I had one interior speaker replaced, and the vent-a-hood fan replaced both in warranty,This took from 2nd week in Jan to early March, the whole time E-USA had my RV, E-USA originally told me two weeks, and still didn't have the warranty work completed until the day I needed it for a trip
During the past year, one side of the dining booth collapsed with my son-in-law on it, did not splinter or break thank goodness and he wasn't hurt, we fixed that issue at camp by putting it back together and bracing it with better lumber that is in it. Just the other day, the very first time the awning was used, I experienced the auto awning not wanting to retract without a little help.
We love the floor plan and overall the RV, I now just watch the black tank and empty it before it gets too full, but I am surprised at how cheaply these things are made these days so they can reduce weight.
So far I have not experienced any of the issues you mentioned, and hope I don't. And I guess I have to let E-USA off the hook on the plumbing issue, but I now have to get a state inspection done prior to registration renewal. I called E-USA who does state inspections, and told them I bought the RV from them a year ago and now need an inspection, they couldn't get to it all this week, and I should call early next week and make an appointment to bring it in. I called another locally owned RV service center, who said they could most likely get right to it and wouldn't take just few minutes to do, but I should call first to make sure the tech is in, so I am going there tomorrow. You would think a big dealer with a big service dept like E-USA would have enough help for someone to do inspections, just another black mark on their customer care and after "warranty" service, maybe I should have told them I bought a half million dollar motor home, and sneak my $53,000 fifth wheel in, I doubt it would have much difference.

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