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Old 11-23-2012, 07:22 AM   #1
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I first began camping when I was a kid. As a young adult, I would rent mini vans and build a bed
in back part of the van. In 2003 I bought a used Class C and started RVing full time. That lasted
1 1/2 yrs. That was all the time I could stand in that small 22 foot Class C.


I then went part time (all summer in the RV in MI) and living in a apt in FL most of the year. Even 10-12 weeks in my small RV was difficult to take. In 2007 when fuel costs went so high, I stopped
RVing, except for anoccasionalweekend trip.


I realized that to full timing and be comfortable for long periods of time. I would need a 24 foot, or larger RV, with at least 1 slide.

This means either a travel trailer (TT), or a 5er (5th wheel) or an expensive MH (motor home).


Some disadvantages of MHs are: Limited number of gas chassis makers WorkHorse & Ford.
Ford has had it share of spark plug and transmission problems and then some.

Buying an expensive and complex piece of equipment from a RV Dealer (someone I would not normally do business with).

Diesel Pushers, while they're very nice. They are just too expensive to buy and maintain.

With a MH, you really need a toad (small car for convenient shopping, etc). Un-hooking a MH,
every couple of days is not fun. Now you would have two motor vehicles and associated costs, in order to RV long term.


Many TT and 5ers, come with slides, giving a decent amount of living space. Getting around some of these issues. That HMs have. But most of them weigh so much, you need a specialized 3/4 or
1 ton truck to pull them. There are only 3 makers of 3/4 & 1 ton trucks, the Big 3 (GM, Ford & Dodge). Meaning less competition in price and a limited selection. These trucks are also fairly expensive. The diesel trucks used to be a great way to pull an RV. They had a long life and
good resale. However, new emission requirements, changed all that. Adding more cost and undoubtedly reduced reliability. I would not buy a new diesel pick-up, at this point.

This is just MHO on these things. My Class C has seen better days. So, I'm wondering if my RVing days are over. I guess they are, unless I can find a more cost effective way to RV.

I can't sleep in a tent and camp, like I did when young.



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Old 11-23-2012, 01:50 PM   #2
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You can buy a used diesel that isn't under all of the emissions requirements. You can also look into an HD F150 ecoboost or HD tundra if gas 3/4 or 1 ton. With the right pairing you can make any of these options work for you. My thing is you don't really sound like you enjoy the lifestyle as you only talk about the negatives and how claustrophobic etc. If that is the case then don't use the TV or MH as an excuse, just own up to it not being what you really want to do and move on to something else in your life. There is no shame in that. Best of luck to you.
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Old 11-24-2012, 01:17 AM   #3
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I agree a Toyota Tundra or Nissan Titan, would get around the quality problems, that Ford & GM
trucks have had. I wish I had known about that before I bought my used Class C. In the yrs I have
owned Bessy. I have spent over $6000, in repairs. I only paid $8500 for her. For instance a new
set of tires was $1300 (they are 16.5 in, an odd size). I have replaced just about everything on her: See the list below. It doesn't include oil, transmission &Radiatorfluid changes, or repairs to the RV living structure. The last few years I have had Bessy, she was really just a bed on wheels with a generator. I spend a lot on the generator too, I lost thatreceiptand don't remember.
Bessy only gets 8 MPG, so the cost of fuel has also been a major drawback RVing.

Front brakes $300, Rear brakes $550, Plugs, wires, cap (a" tune-up") $300
Muffler, pipes, CatConverter(2separaterepairs) $900
A/C type change & then new compressor & fan motor $800
Alternator & serpentine belt $300
Water Pump, Tstat, new hoses $500
Battery twice $200
Starter 4 times (some G30 van starters had heat sink issue, from $1000
exhaust pipe, I learned this the hard way, no repair shop told me)

Ignition switch $180
Shocks & suspension repair (2separaterepairs) $900
Windshield wiper motor & new wiperblades $300

This is the last Big 3 vehicle I will ever buy, that's for sure. I hear Ford is worse, having spark plug
blowout and auto transmission problems. Ford claims plug blowout is not an issue, yet a small
company (blownoutsparkplug.com) has found a niche market fixing the problem. I have heard the
same thing is true with Ford's R-100 transmission. It has an engineering flaw that a small company found a way to fix. Chrysler chassis got so bad in the 70s, they were eliminated as supplier to
the RV industry.

Anyway, Bessy only had 38K miles when I bought her. I have only put about 15K miles on over about 7 yrs. But, as you can see above I have had nothing but trouble. I stopped getting too far away fromhome, because something went wrong every trip.

Now the wood of the living structure part of my RV is falling apart. There have been leaks into her I didn't notice over the yrs. I had aninspectionbefore I bought Bessy, but these problem were notrecognized.

Also,claustrophobia is bydefinitionanirrationalfear. Everyone gets Cabin Fever, at least to</span>
some extent. When it rains for a while, the problem is magnified several time over. My dog didn't like getting back in the RV either, after he had been</span>living with me in a regular apt.</span>

The RV industry has done a lot of design work on slides, because RVers need em to be comfortable. When walking into a dealer, that's the first thing RV salesmen talk about is the</span>
slides an RV has. At least that's been my experience. Now I have to figure out, were old RVs go
when they die.
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:55 AM   #4
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I agree with anaro, quit whining and man up.
This is not accurate info that you are giving us. I own a 3/4 ton chevy silverado duramax diesel / allison tranny, and I love it. There are NO problems with the emissions I have on my truck, nor have I heard of anybody else having any.
The only difference is the DEF fluid (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) I have to fill up every 7000 miles. I pay approx $12.00 for 2 1/2 gallons, and it takes 5 gallons if it is bone dry. What I get in return is absolutely NO black smoke billowing out of my exhaust pipe. In fact, after 25,000 miles the inside of my exhaust pipe is still clean.
So, for approx $25.00 twice a year, I get a clean running truck that gets 18 to 22 mpg with no load, and 12-16mpg pulling my 38' toy hauler. AND it does not darken the sky or my garage like the old diesels did.
I am probably going to be sorry I said this, but I believe it to be true, so here goes :
Yes I agree that GM / Ford &amp; Chrysler became complacent building the same product year after year. I also agree that alot of what they built was crap.
If we all think back when Toyota/ Datsun/ Honda started out selling their product in America, they were junk. But they learned from their mistakes and overtook the big 3 in quality &amp; sales.
When the Big 3 were in danger of going under, the Government loaned them the money to retool and reorganize, (not Ford)which was very contraversial. However, it worked--the big 3 have overtaken the competition in both quality and customer satisfaction.
What most people do not realize-- is ALL Japanese car manufactures are subsidized by their government, AND while they sell millions of cars here, they put a large tarrif on any cars we sell there. So we are not comparing apples to apples.
So GM &amp; Chrysler "borrowed" money to reorganize, Both are Paying the loans back"EARLY , WITH INTEREST" While the competition continues to be subsidized by the Japanese Government.
I will say this, and then get off my soap box, I have worked for GM for 34 years as a skilled tradesman, and have seen first hand how the company has changed from 1978 through 2012. GM not only changed their system from top to bottom, Quality is the main focus, and next is safety. I will put ANY GM vehicle up against a comparable vehicle, at any time and win most of the time.
Look up your tundra or titan on Consumer Reports or any other testing publication, Big 3 vehicles have overtaken the foreign vehicles in both quality and customer satisfaction.
I believe that in America, people are free to choose to purchase any product they want to, I also believe that if you compare American made to foreign made with an open mind, you will be amazed at what we are building now
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:56 AM   #5
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I have to agree with stevenrees, I much prefer towing with my Ford to my old armada but that is apples to oranges as it is a gas 1/2 ton suv compared to a 3/4 ton diesel pick up. In terms of quality, I dumped a ton of money into my armada. It was a 2004 and it had a ton of problems. The last year that we owned it we dumped $1200 into tires, plus another $2000 into repair bills and it had a leaking exhaust manifold when we traded it this past Jan. We bought our diesel used and it requires regular maintenance. It also required $1100 for new tires last month also. This is basic care to keep it going. It is factored into our budget and that is how we account for it.

In terms of rving, it is not a cheap past-time. Campgrounds cost, equipment costs, maintenance needs to be done and costs. The maintenance is cheaper if you do it yourself but that takes time and know-how. MH are more more maintenance than a tt or 5er.

I am still trying to figure out why you are on a crossroads owners forum complaining about your old MH and.saying rving is too expensive.Do you have a point or question related to these forums or are you just looking for someone to listen to you whine?Honestly, you need to either decide you like rving and are willing to pay for it or decide you are out and fine a new hobby. It sounds like you don't enjoy it so the expense is not justified to you. For us we don't mind spending our money on it because we are building great family memories and having family time.Enough is enough. Decide and move on.Edited by: anaro
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:38 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenrees

I agree with anaro, quit whining and man up.
This is not accurate info that you are giving us. I own a 3/4 ton chevy silverado duramax diesel / allison tranny, and I love it. There are NO problems with the emissions I have on my truck, nor have I heard of anybody else having any.
The only difference is the DEF fluid (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) I have to fill up every 7000 miles. I pay approx $12.00 for 2 1/2 gallons, and it takes 5 gallons if it is bone dry. What I get in return is absolutely NO black smoke billowing out of my exhaust pipe. In fact, after 25,000 miles the inside of my exhaust pipe is still clean.
So, for approx $25.00 twice a year, I get a clean running truck that gets 18 to 22 mpg with no load, and 12-16mpg pulling my 38' toy hauler. AND it does not darken the sky or my garage like the old diesels did.
Before people buy a new diesel trucks consider the probelms the Ford 6.4L PSD engine had.

The Ford PowerStroke 6.4L Diesel had major problems and got discountinued. It was an engine designed for meeting emissions. Because before that engine, Ford used the 7.3L and that was
a real good engine, according to Wiki and other sources. You pays your money and takes your chances with a new Big 3 truck.

Type "ford powerstroke diesel 6.4L" it into Google and the first word that comes up is problems.
IIRC they had an open feud, that was covered in the media with Navistar International Corp
(Ford's diesel engine supplier). According to the PowerStroke forum, the transmissions hooked to
the 6.4 PSD also had problems.

CAT (Catapiller Tactor) was a major diesel engine maker who dropped out of the highway engine business. They were not a Big 3 suppiler of engines for pickups, but they made engines for diesel
pushers. They gave up on trying to meet the new emission standards. The losers on that are CAT workers and RV consumers, who will now have less choices in the marketplace. I hope the new
diesels work for RVers, I just wouldn't buy one until they have been tested by the public.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenrees
I am probably going to be sorry I said this, but I believe it to be true, so here goes :
Yes I agree that GM / Ford &amp; Chrysler became complacent building the same product year after year. I also agree that alot of what they built was crap.
If we all think back when Toyota/ Honda started out selling their product in America, they were junk. But they learned from their mistakes and overtook the big 3 in quality &amp; sales.
When the Big 3 were in danger of going under, the Government loaned them the money to retool and reorganize, (not Ford)which was verycontroversial. However, it worked--the big 3 have overtaken the competition in both quality and customer satisfaction.
What most people do not realize-- is ALL Japanese car manufactures are subsidized by their government, AND while they sell millions of cars here, they put a largetariffon any cars we sell there. So we are not comparing apples to apples.
US made cars don't sell in Japan because there is very little market in that country. Most people
take public transportation to work in Japan. I have never heard anything about a tariff being the
reason. I worked one summer in an auto plant in the 1970s. They had all kinds of problems,
including workers drinkingalcoholon the job. It was the quality that killed the big 3 and other
reasons as well. Yamaha now pretty much owns the outboard motor and PWC markets, because
of their better quality.

The whole Japan Inc turbo charged style of capitalism was a myth.It worked in a very few instances and ended up causing a lot of the economic problems Japan had in the 1990s.

Notice heavy trucks have not suffered the same fate. Mack, Peterbuilt, Kenworth etc, didn't
lose there market positions. Ya just don't sell truckers junk and ever expect em to forget!
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:13 AM   #7
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Dog Father, you may have found the sloution to your problem, many 7.3L are still on the road--I'm sure you could finda good used one. Yes they, as well as any TT or 5'r will take money to mantain them, as will a house or anything else. Either you like it and will find a way to continue--or give it up and find something elseto do.

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Old 11-30-2012, 12:32 PM   #8
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Dog Father,
I just bought a 1999 F250 4x4 SD SC 7.3L with 150,000 miles on it without a bit of rust, new tires, new brakes and got the car fax too. Owned by one elderly gentlemen to pull his 5th wheel, which is now on a permanent site. The dealer I bought it from has a 2000 F250 4x4 SD SC with a 7.3L with 200,000 miles on it for about $12,000 I think. Oh, did I mention it also comes with a 5th wheel hitch already installed Anyway, if you're truly interested I can give you the details, I feel good about the one I bought.

Jim
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