No Brakes!

shoetravel · 07-07-2011, 12:36 AM

At some point over this past weekend my emergency brake switch plug got pulled out.For how long, I don't know. When I found it the generator had been running for several hours so the battery did not run down. Now I have no brakes what so ever. the P3 shows codes for short curcuit when plugged in and overload when the brakepedal is pressed.

Where do I start with this one (besides hunting down the

who pulled the plug)?

Do I assume the magnets are toast? I am not really an electrical wiz but can use a meter with good instruction.

Not going anywhere until the 24th so have a couple of weekends to get it figured out. Just need to know where to start.

Thanks.

Dayle1 · 07-07-2011, 01:49 AM

Patrick,

Start with the emergency switch, they can easily overheat in that situation and cause a short even with the pin re-inserted. You can disconnect one of the wires to that switch and see if that corrects the problem. Another option is to disconnect the coach battery cables, that takes the emergency switch out of the circuit also. Which ever is easiest.

If the short remains, there may be a melted wire somewhere. This is just my opinion, but the magnets are least likely to be the problem, the drums provide a huge heat sink, so they probably didn't overheat. But if that is the problem, it is also unlikely all four failed, so cut one wire at each wheel and use an ohmmeter to measure the magnet resistance. It should be about 3-4 ohms as I recall for a single magnet. All four magnets in parallel will measure about 1 ohm. Anything less than 1/2 ohm for the entire circuit is definately a short somewhere.

rcflyer · 07-07-2011, 03:28 AM

Regardless of what you find you should remove all four brake drums and check the magnets. At the same time use the opportunity to repack bearings and inspect them. If you have to replace a magnet Dexter recommends replacing all so you are sure you will have a balanced set. Brakes are way to important to try and cut corners.

Robbie Ribbins · 07-07-2011, 01:04 PM

Happen to my old trailer and it did burn up all the magnets Sorry to tell you this bad news. Robbie

shoetravel · 07-07-2011, 01:41 PM

Thanks guys for the input. I'll be checking things this weekend to see where it sits. Might be a little less $$$ impact if what Larry says holds out but am prepared for the worst. John, I am a few weeks late on my every two years bearing repack and that was already planned so that is part ofwhat ever brake repair is necessarynow.

Also down the road have been thinking I might need brake shoe replacement by next spring. I do a lot travelling in the mountains so the brakes see a lot of activity. I have looked at etrailer.com and priced the backing plates already set up with shoes and magnets. Really not much more $$$ and can get it all done at one time and know it is taken care of for a few years.

A couple of questions, anyone deal with etrailer.com before? Also, they show setups with "self-adjusting brakes", do they work and is it worth the extra $$'s?

On Saturday I'll know where I sit and might have a few more

's then.

rcflyer · 07-07-2011, 04:16 PM

I have purchased from etrailer many times. Good company and often the best price. When replacing brakes the complete backing plate is the way to go in my opinion. That way everything is new and clean. I can not comment about self-adjusting but would take a serious look at them if I were doing a complete replacement.

Dayle1 · 07-08-2011, 01:02 AM

I agree, new backing plates is the way to go. Also, from my experience the drum surface that the magnets contact wear much worse than the brake surface. The cost of getting the existing drums completely surfaced at a machine shop, (if they will even touch the magnet face) is more than buying brand new drums that will include new bearings, seals and caps. I've purchased from Southwest Wheel with good results.

shoetravel · 07-10-2011, 07:45 AM

Well it wasn't just the switch. Don't know how I didn't notice when I put the pin back in the switch thewires were melted. The wireswere also melted inside the junction box under the pin. Cleaned everythingup and mounted a new emergency switch. But the Prodigy is stillindicating a short. Besides the magnets, is there anything else I should be checking?

Dayle1 · 07-10-2011, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoetravel

Well it wasn't just the switch.Â* Don't know how I didn't notice when I put the pin back in the switch theÂ*wires were melted.Â* The wiresÂ*were also melted inside the junction box under the pin.Â* Cleaned everythingÂ*up and mounted a new emergency switch.Â*Â* But the Prodigy is stillÂ*indicating a short. Â*Besides the magnets, is there anything else I should be checking?Â*

1) disconnect the new emergency switch and recheck the Prodigy in case you missed something with all the melted wires in the junction box.

2) disconnect 12V and use an ohmmeter to get a reading, is it zero or just low?

shoetravel · 07-12-2011, 02:11 PM

Okay, went back thru all the wiring both the emergency switch and brakes and no short. I checked the brake magnets and got 7-8 ohms on each so they are certainly bad.

I have an appointment tomorrow at the shop that installed my brake controller. They are going to hook up their box to make sure everything is good with the truck wiring and the controller.

One thing I found,one ofthe wires that melted inside the junctionwas spliced into the wire from the coach battery. When I removed the cover plate from the box I bumped the wire and it arced to the box. (At that point I thought it would be wise to shutoff the battery switch.) Remembering this I checked the fuse panel on my truck and found the 20 amp 12V auxillary fuse was blown. I hope that is the only thing on the truck side but will find out tomorrow.

I am going to go ahead and order the loaded backing plates from e-trailer tomorrow. Just wanted to double checkthe right size?

http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Brak...er/23-458.html I'll call them in the morning..

We are planning on leaving on the 24th for a week in the Cascades so hope I can get this done by then. Got another trip planned to the Olympic Penninsula the week afteras well...

definitely got to get this taken care of...

One thing I am thinking about,The battery switchI installed is just asimple on/off switch. I might change it for a multi position switch so at certain camp placesI can switch off the power to the brakes and landinggear while the rest of the 12V stays powered...

Stan · 07-12-2011, 03:23 PM

Patrick, in addition to finding out about your brakes, I would be interested in hearing about your trip to the Olympic Peninsula. We want to do that loop but have not done it yet. (it's a ferry ride from the Island and is pricey!) Keep us posted.

Dayle1 · 07-13-2011, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoetravel

Okay, went back thru all the wiring both the emergency switch and brakes and no short.Â* I checked the brake magnets and got 7-8 ohms on each so they are certainly bad.Â*Â*

7-8 ohms seems a strange number. I would expect either open or more likely a short since that is what the P3 was telling you. 7-8 ohms is about 2x what a single magnet should read. Almost sounds like two magnets in series, when all four should be parallel connected. Hope you get it figured out.

shoetravel · 07-13-2011, 02:18 PM

Larry, I figured that since I most likely would be replacing the magnets/brakes I cut the wires at each one to measure the resistance. I also checked where the wires pass thru the holes in the axles and thru the backing plates and didn't find any signs of chaffing that would cause a short.

Another thing I did notice that I hadn't before. My rear axle is rotated slightly forward. at least if you compare the flanges between the front axle and the rear axle. I checked the welds on the spring perches and they are good soI figure it was just made that way. Never noticed before when I had the drums off to do bearings or when I adjusted the brakes before.

shoetravel · 07-13-2011, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan

Patrick, in addition to finding out about your brakes, I would be interested in hearing about your trip to the Olympic Peninsula. We want to do that loop but have not done it yet. (it's a ferry ride from the Island and is pricey!) Keep us posted.

Stan, unfortuantely we won't be doing the full Olympic loop this time. Our original plan was to do a Cascade loop the first week, out over North Cascades back over Chinook. This followed by the full Olympic loop the second week. But I'll need to check into the office for a couple of days and thenneed to be at Fort Worden by the Thursday of that week for a family reunion. If we can get out Tuesday evening we will try to go to the Nat'l Park for a day. I am also curious to see the work they are doing at Elwha to remove the dam...

I can see where it would be a bit more time for you coming from the island to drive around. Did the ferry once at Edmonds. By the time we added up the fare and the wait time we could have driven around and saved a lot$$. But either way its worth it. Lots ofgreat camping along the coast and thestrait.

shoetravel · 07-23-2011, 11:50 AM

New brakes are all installed. Did buy the loaded backing plates from e-trailer including self adjusting. Very easy install. found the reason for the 'short" code from the prodigy. This is the worst one. The insulation was melted off the wiresand were shorted across the spindle..

New brakes checked out great so we are good to go for our upcoming trip.

shoetravel · 07-23-2011, 12:14 PM

Forgot to mention, between buying the loaded backing plates and using the Trailer-aid instead of a bottle jack, we got the whole thing done in under 5 hours. That's including fresh grease in the bearings. I like conveniences...

Dayle1 · 07-23-2011, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoetravel

New brakes are all installed.Â* Did buy the loaded backing plates from e-trailer including self adjusting.Â* Very easy install.Â* found the reason for the 'short" code from the prodigy.Â* This is the worst one.Â* The insulation was melted off the wiresÂ*and were shorted across the spindle..Â*

Â*

New brakes checked out great so we are good to go for our upcoming trip.

Patrick,

Sure looks a lot like what I suggested in the beginning.

Seriously, glad you got it fixed, and now you have new shoes and a new grease job.

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