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Old 08-05-2014, 08:51 AM   #1
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Troubleshooting Lippert slide motor? - also, manual slide adaptor to 3/4 hex?

Hey all, my main slide has been getting worse over the past year to where it won't retract anymore. It will still extend (slowly), but I have to use the manual method to go the other way.

I've already sent an email to Crossroads yesterday with pictures and the troubleshooting I've done to date and will let you know if I hear anything.

This is on a 2008 CF32BL.

Best I can tell, it's either the motor or electrical. Doesn't seem to be any binding in the slide motion, as I can "easily" move it by hand. Next time I get a chance I plan to test the voltage according to the manual (page 18/19):

http://www.lci1.com/images/support/m...ideout-web.pdf

I think this is the motor I will need, from trolling the Lippert website and checking diagrams:

http://www.rvupgradestore.com/Lipper...045-132682.htm

Better than the $500 Lippert wants for it!

Until I get the $$ and time to replace it, has anyone figured out an adapter to replace the hand crank with a cordless drill? Here is how the muscle power method works (page 7 of the Lippert manual):

http://www.lci1.com/images/support/m...ideout-web.pdf

I've been looking for some 3/4 steel hex tubing that I could simply cut a notch in to go over the existing rod and then turn with my drill. However everything in hex I find online is solid section. Next I thought I could make square tube work somehow...

Here are some pics of the motor and the gearbox, etc.

The shaft seen here is to the manual crank at the exterior:



View of the motor. Manual shaft at the bottom of this view out of the gearbox, output tube to the slide at the top. Only part # on the motor was RV8000, which didn't turn up in any google searches. By the looks of it and comparing to Lippert info it looks like the Venture 18:1 motor (at least the gearing label is still there...)



Switch type appears to be the "new" style according to Lippert.



Another view of the gears. When I get DW to flip the switch, everything moves generally ok for extending, but when trying to retract it looks like the motor is working against something that's binding. However when hand cranking it turns over rather "easily" (at least what I would think a large motor should be able to do - I think my cheapo Harbor Freight drill could do it).



I don't want to get into the bashing but I'm kinda disappointed in all the stuff on my coach that has Lippert badging. The junky slide wiring "LCI Quick Draw" plastic guides are terrible and I've since replaced with my own repair, the landing gear is terribly slow and now this. I've had older campers for years without basic problems like this.

I also like how when I removed the motor access panel underneath, there was no opening. I had to cut a section out of the underbelly to get in ... something that should have been done at the factory?

Anyway we'll see if I get anything back from CR. If I do replace the motor or find a manual crank adapter I'll update with pics.

Thanks!
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Old 08-05-2014, 09:47 AM   #2
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Hook your voltmeter to the wires going to the motor and measure the voltage when the motor is extending or trying to retract. I think you will find you have a major voltage drop in the system and the motor just isn't getting the volts it needs to operate.
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Old 08-05-2014, 02:48 PM   #3
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If you have a Clamp type amp meter you can see if the motor is drawing too much amperage. My access panels were never cut either. That's the way they did it back then which is fine by me.....no water intrusion. If it's relatively easy to move by manual operation, I would lean towards a worn motor rather than the gearbox.
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Old 08-05-2014, 06:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan View Post
If you have a Clamp type amp meter you can see if the motor is drawing too much amperage. My access panels were never cut either. That's the way they did it back then which is fine by me.....no water intrusion. If it's relatively easy to move by manual operation, I would lean towards a worn motor rather than the gearbox.
X2. Good pics and description. Hope you get it resolved soon.
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Old 08-05-2014, 06:51 PM   #5
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Make sure you have the correct clamp meter, most will not read DC current.
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Old 08-05-2014, 08:39 PM   #6
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Thanks everyone, I'm going to try with my voltmeter this weekend. I have a clamp on ammeter but just looked and it only does AC. I'll see if I can find a reasonably priced DC unit, would be useful in the future I'm sure.

I suspect the motor as well but going to go through the motions anyway before I drop the $. At least I found it cheaper than what the lippert website wants ... $530 is nuts!

It also doesn't look very straightforward for replacement, I hope I don't have to drop the motor and tube assembly (which means the whole underbelly too) ... hopefully I'll get an answer from CR or Lippert on the right way to do it and I can do it through the access. Either way I'll update with pics...
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Old 08-05-2014, 09:33 PM   #7
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My money is on bad contacts in the switch. Worse one way than the other so it goes one way albeit slowly and not the other. Just too much voltage drop.

Once you try at the motor back up to the switch and measure the input voltage to the switch. The first try should be with the switch in the middle (off). Probably get around 12.5v (13.6 if you are plugged into AC and the converter is running). Then try either direction and see what the drop is, it should be under a volt with good wiring going to the switch. Then locate the output sides of the switch, one for in and the other for out. Measure each of those. It should be the same as the input voltage under load.

If, as I suspect, you have low voltage to the motor the checks are to divide and conquer. 1. Wiring to the switch, 2. thru the switch, and 3. wiring from the switch to the motor. If all of that is good that just leaves the motor.

Is that clear as mud?
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Old 08-06-2014, 08:01 AM   #8
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It wasn't mention, at least I don't think I read it, are you on AC or using just the batteries? Might be the batteries are low? Just trying to keep it simple. (KISS)
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Old 08-06-2014, 06:12 PM   #9
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Hi folks,
I got some time to check things out this afternoon. I'm thinking it's the motor ... but check me on this. Here was my troubleshooting path:

First I checked the battery with it disconnected from the coach (it did have the solar charging unit connected). Looks good:




Then I flipped the "disconnect" to "connect" turn on the 12v power in the 5er. Still good:




Next I checked voltage to the switch:



Still looking good (there are two grounds, checked both):



Next I checked the terminals going to the motor. Looked like everything is connected (very low resistance):







Next, with the leads on the output on the back of the switch (yellow / green), I checked voltage as I flipped either way. Same result (polarity flips):




Little bit of a drop through the switch, but still looks ok:




Next I had some strange issues with my multimeter as I went to check voltage at the motor. The sent me on a wild goose chase checking wiring, but in the end I swapped multimeters. In the process I discovered two things....

this is the auto reset breaker for the slides (all of them) - the one on the left:



And this is the mess of wiring behind the control panel:




Anyway since I was getting lots of weird stuff as I measured at the motor I switched to a backup multimeter (values were jumpy, etc) and things made sense again. Maybe the batteries were going in the other one? Anyway I was finally able to check voltage across the motor with the switch at In / Out positions:



Same value (13.06V) either way.

When I activated the switch all these times I got no response from the motor. Zilch. At the end, as a test I manually cranked a little to see if I could get the motor to engage by being in a different position. I did get it to move in the "out" direction under power and the meter read ~ 11.5V. I couldn't get it to move in the "in" direction.

So basically I'm getting 13v+ everywhere, with the exception of a voltage drop to about 11.5V the one time I could get it to move.

Motor is the culprit or would you test anything else?

Still no word from CR.

Thanks!
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Old 08-06-2014, 08:01 PM   #10
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You've done a lot, impressive. I have the Seville and the couch/dining table/chairs came with a stock motor (lite weight). When I had to replace the motor/rod assy on the kitchen slide (also lite weight) with a heavy duty motor, I also had the couch replaced with a heavy duty motor too. The kitchen/couch slide were heavier than the other two slides. They should have put heavy duty on to begin with. The slides are a little slower now but they handle the weight just fine. Your motor probably just wore out, I would suggest going with the heavy duty one if you can. OEM motor was a 18 to 1 Ratio; new motor is 28 to 1 Ratio.
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Old 08-06-2014, 08:04 PM   #11
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super duty to get a dc motor to reverse it reverses polarity. you should be getting a +13 and a -13. Try disconnecting the motor wires and using a set of jumper cables go straight to the battery it should go one direction, switch the two cables on the battery and it should go the other direction, if then it don't work then for sure your motor is gone. you could try a dc motor shop- starters/alternator they may be able to rebuild it. hope this helps and works.
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Old 08-06-2014, 09:13 PM   #12
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Sounds like you covered every base I was talking about. Looks to be the motor. Good luck on finding a decent replacement.
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Old 08-08-2014, 08:56 AM   #13
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Browsing around and found this site. While not cheap it's better than $500

http://www.rvupgradestore.com/Lipper...arts-s/255.htm
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Old 08-08-2014, 11:11 AM   #14
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Thank you Clif, this is the best price I've found so far:

http://www.makariosrv.com/18-1-ventu...ut-014-132682/

Like you said better than $530 even though it's still some $$ I could use for something else...

Cajun T I think it actually indicated +/- 13V on the in/out but I'll check again just to make sure.

My neighbor is Mr. Super handyman and has apparently rebuilt electric motors. I'm going to take it out this weekend and we'll give it a shot - nothing to lose if we trash it I guess, figure I've got to buy another anyway..

I also think I have a redneck way to replace the hand crank with a drill for the manual method, I'll post that up too if/when it works.

Will keep the updates coming.
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Old 08-08-2014, 10:03 PM   #15
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Thanks for the post and your pictures. We haven't had any
slide motor issues ourselves but the last owners of our unit had
the motor on the heavy kitchen slide with double fridges
replaced with bigger motors. Your pictures and post will be
a good guideline as to what we should be looking for.
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Old 08-09-2014, 08:54 AM   #16
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Wow - this is better than Netflix!! Excellent troubleshooting procedures. Keep the updates coming. I am really interested in the "fix".
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Old 08-09-2014, 12:18 PM   #17
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DC motors have brushes that wear out. I don't have a clue where you could get new ones.
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Old 08-10-2014, 02:09 PM   #18
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Hi everyone, got some more info... I apologize if this seems disjointed, I just wrote this all up once only to have the website dump my post!

I emailed Lippert Friday and actually got a response. Well it was short and somewhat unclear but enough. I asked if (from the pictures I sent) if what I had was the Venture 18:1 motor, if it could be replaced with the 28:1 and if they had instructions on replacement.

What I got back was part numbers for both motors, "YES" and "A FEW SCREWS". At least it was fast. I emailed again just to make sure and confirmed the 28:1 is a possibility.

While waiting on that I looked around and found who makes the motor:
http://www.venturemfgco.com/slide-out-actuator.html

I emailed them and asked about rebuild parts. Not holding my breath.

Saturday I got the motor out. Here's how:
3/8" socket to remove the access panel:



12mm to remove the motor and gearset as a whole from the linear actuator tube. The top bolt is harder to get to, a ratcheting wrench makes it less difficult:


this is what's left without the motor and gearset:



Here is the motor and gearset out:



After this I tested directly to my battery, which I knew was strong enough as it would run my other slides. No movement in either direction. Odd, as I thought it would at least rotate a bit without load.

Today at home I took the motor apart. First I googled DC motor basics as I know nothing on the subject... (see slide 13)
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/gr...c/en543041.pdf

I decided to take the cap off - 8mm wrench:


Apart:


Didn't find any red flags with my novice level inspection but one of these brushes had a chunk missing..



When I first took it apart, maybe I saw that one of the brushes was "sticking" ... where it should have been contacting the commutator, maybe there was a gap? but I don't recall. Not sure what to do next, I did what my engineer instincts said ... put it all back together and see what happens!

So I put it all back together, and lo and behold it ran fine.

good news but not sure why.

I tried forward and reverse polarity, and about the same amp draw (at least according to the battery charger I was using) in either direction. It made more noise in the reverse direction, which is the "trouble" direction (slide retraction).

Forward:




Reverse:



Taking it apart one more time to check the brushes, this time more carefully...





I'm inclined to reinstall it and see what happens ... guessing there was something keeping the brush(es) from contacting? I'll see what my neighbor friend says first.

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Old 08-10-2014, 02:32 PM   #19
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you could have had a brush "stick" in its slot, and not advance when worn. Have seen this happen lots of times with some of the old avionics gear we work on at work. Sometimes a good rap with a hammer will "unstick" a brush and let it's spring push it up to the commutator (SP?). Put her back together and give it a go!! One thing that can make a brush stick, a small irregularity on one side. That can make the brush "cock" to one side and jam up, and as the end that is contacting the commutator (SP?) wears down, it will loose contact and the motor won't run. The above mentioned hammer tap has worked more often than not! Just my personal experience, your mileage may vary!
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Old 08-10-2014, 02:46 PM   #20
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Ask your friend about shining/cleaning up the armature before you put it back.
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