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Old 01-11-2015, 07:27 PM   #1
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Anyone with a Z1 front deck toy hauler

I'm looking for tongue weight info from anyone with one of the Z1 front deck toy haulers - 218TD, 252TD, etc.
Can anyone give me an idea of how much additional tongue weight they are getting when using the front deck? I just purchased a 2015 252TD in November and it looks like my tongue weight is going from just under 700 with nothing on the deck to almost 1600 with 2 atvs on the deck (1 is 600 and 1 is 500). The deck is rated at 1500, but is all that weight supposed to go to the tongue? How do you maintain the suggested 10-15% weight ratio? Thanks in advance for any insight..
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Old 01-11-2015, 07:37 PM   #2
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Just going by what you posted here and on the other thread, plus looking at your sig picture of the rig, my initial thoughts are that your numbers are correct. Most of the weight being added that far in front of the wheels is going to be supported by the tongue.
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:22 AM   #3
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Im interested too, I just bought one also

As a note I previously owned a Palomino Banchee B1 which is a front load Tent trailer atv deck similar to the design of the z1 252. only MUCH shorter tongue and wheelbase. (SEE attached PIC)
In towing my Z1 back from the dealer 1200 miles away I noticed that this trailer towed much easier than my smaller trailer. the tongue weight was significantly lighter becase I did not even have to use my wd bars to maintain an even travel load. The advertised tongue weight is 700 but I belive it to be much lighter than that! I have not loaded my quads and motorcycle on there yet as it still in storage.
As an example my old trailer which was supposed to have 400 pound tongue weight but even unloaded need the wd bars to keep the truck level.
I have concluded that the specs on the Zi are out by quite a bit, here is the reasons why; all the specs sheets state that it is 37 feet long this is wrong Mine measures 39 feet. (the OLDER 2013 model had a shorter deck by two feet) the tongue weight specs did not change? between the two models? this is phisically impossible.
By adding two more feet of deck will make the tongue lighter by a significant amount. the fact that I dont need weight dist bars on a truck I have been towing with for years boggled my mind? (2004 CHevy tahoe 1/2 ton )
So my conclustion is once the weight is on the deck and of coarse loaded as far back as you can get to the living quarters that the tongue weight will be perfectly fine. I have towed all this same equipment on my smaller trailer but the tongue/ hitch was only 3 1/2 feet away from the load where as now its almost 6 feet back . Time will tell but I would like to go across the scales to really see what the unloaded tongue weight is. Im sure cr have not updated thier specs after lengthing the atv deck last year.
I dont want to buy a new truck!
Look forward to the responses!.
Ron
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Old 01-12-2015, 01:03 PM   #4
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Stan and Ron, thanks for the replies,
This Z1 towed great the 400 miles across upstate NY and MA. My previous trailer was an 08 Viking Legend 2275SC which, like your B1 is a front deck popup. With my Viking I never needed a WD hitch until I got my Kodiak. Before then, I could load my son's Baja 250U ATV (500 lbs) and my KDX200 bike with no problem. But once I got the Kodiak (600 lbs) and had to put the Baja in the bed, I needed a WD hitch to keep things level. The attached pic shows the final setup with my youngest's little atv on the back deck I made, but the truck would sit and tow the same whether the little atv was on the back or not.
When I first hooked up the Z1 at the dealer, it was definitely heavier than the fully loaded Viking was, and I could feel that towing it back home. But it towed fine, sat level, and I was quite happy. You can see in my sig pic that it sits nice when dry, I have no air bags or other help on the rear springs. But when I put the atvs on the deck, I noticed right away that it was REALLY heavy on the tongue, and the truck squatted right down, the 10k WD seemed to do absolutely nothing. I towed it the 6 miles to my shop where I keep it, and even though the truck pulled it fine, the rear was just squatting so bad, I dare not go anywhere else with it with the atvs on board. I just finally got around to weighing the tongue yesterday with the atvs on the deck, and voila, it is ringing in at 1600 lbs. Now I know that it should be heavy on the tongue because of the deck position and how far back the axles are, but going from 700 to 1600 lbs? Even with a 2500, the factory class IV hitch is only rated for 1200 lbs tongue weight. So I am wondering if this trailer is marketed as a 1/2 ton friendly toy hauler unless you want to haul toys? And what would the tongue weight be if you put the full 1500 lbs on the deck? What type of hitch do you need for 1800 lbs tongue? It just seems so out of whack to me I thought I must be doing something wrong. I'm gonna call CR today, and I will post back what I find out.
BTW, the specs on mine (2015) are 5860 lbs dry, tongue 694 lbs. I went out to measure it, it is exactly 37'-6" from back of bumper to center of ball....mine has a 9' deck.
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Old 01-12-2015, 01:36 PM   #5
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For what you guys want to do with these trailers, the thought is great. The way I see it-------it's a lousy idea CR came up with. When you put that much weight in front of the axles it's just asking for trouble.
Some where down the road I think we can except to hear about the frame in front of the trailer, or the hitch breaking off.
Maybe a heavier weight distributing hitch would help get the tv leveled up. I don't know, but you will still more then likely be over weight on your hitch and definitely on your present tv.
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Old 01-12-2015, 02:08 PM   #6
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I guess it depends on how well built that frame section is....

(but given the trend to do the least possible .... you are probably right Lloyd !)
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Old 01-12-2015, 02:13 PM   #7
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Wow, that hitch weight scares me now! my calculations were a lot less. I do have Air bags on my unit because of the old trailers tongue weight. when fully loaded the air bags were maxxed and the 400 pound WD hitch was cranked to maintain level towing. I ran across the scales a year or so back and it was all within legal towing limits for the truck (7700 pounds) and each axel was within its tires load capacity
I have 10 ply e rated tires on it presently. Im really intererested in what CR says, probably they will say its up to the end user to load and distibute weight on thier trailer! But Im about to spend 3 grand to have my TV transmission replaced so if its not going to work I need to start shopping for a diffent truck. Ive never heard of such high hitch weights .
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Old 01-12-2015, 02:45 PM   #8
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Well, I called CR and they told me that the 1600 lb tongue weight would be normal. I asked for advice on this and they told me they don't comment on hitches or TV...call Dodge or Camping World (my dealer). I called Camping World, and they suggested a class V hitch, but one is not available for my truck. They suggested if I wasn't able to buy a new TV, to have my frame modified by a qualified frame shop to be able to install a class V hitch.
What burns me right now is I spent a lot of time researching campers to find one to fit my needs, found one being advertised as fitting my needs, was told by the dealer that it would fit my needs...and the truth is it is not able to do that at all, so now CR and the dealer both are saying "not my problem"...So in all this sales and advertising about 690 lb tongue weight and "as long as your 1500 is beefy enough" crap does it say " *note that due to this configuration, 80% or more of the weight put on the deck will show up at the ball".
I think the idea is a good one for a toy hauler, I love the floor plan and having the deck....but it's the dishonesty of the marketing and sales that is wrong, and then hiding behind "well, technically we didn't say...." It's like the famous line "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is".....
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Old 01-12-2015, 03:14 PM   #9
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Ron,
Do yourself a favor and check the weight of what you will put on the deck. Stan and Lloyd are quite right I think, 75% or better of the weight put on the deck is showing up at the ball....I put about 500 lbs in the trailer, about 1/2 that is behind the axles, and 1100 lbs on the deck and that added 900 lbs to the tongue. There is no stock 1/2 ton TV made - factory towing or not- that will have a hitch available to handle that weight..never mind the payload capacity...

If you have a 500 lb atv, 300 lb bike, 100 lbs of gas , gear, tools, etc. then you could see another 675 lbs at the ball...that's 1365, and with a good WD hitch you might get away with it on a class IV....but it still may put you over your GVWR on your TV..if not it'll be on the edge...
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Old 01-12-2015, 04:19 PM   #10
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Im in exactly the same boat as you, I did months of research before I decided on this model. Nowhere did I find this information. even in side the trailer it had a BIG warinig sticker not to put too much weight in the rear cargo area or it may become unstable! HUH thats a joke you could put a mini cooper back there and not offset the weight of a couple quads and the gas and gear! . I have a 800 wd hitch on this but it looks lilke my hitch might fall off the truck before that does any good! I am going to have to find a scale that I can use to test all these weights with my equipment onboard! let me know what you come up with, I will do the same.
best of luck Matt.
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Old 01-12-2015, 04:26 PM   #11
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Another question here...what about the axles and springs on the trailer. Are they heavier than the same trailer without the front storage? Thought I would ask as I have had to upgrade mine as the tires were bottoming out on the underside of the trailer and the springs were flattened out and was not overloaded.
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Old 01-12-2015, 04:44 PM   #12
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Hi Wayne,
The axles on mine are rated 4300 lbs each and the springs are mounted on the top side of the axles for increased ground clearance. The tires are 225/75R15 D load rating. It looks like the latest version of my trailer has axles rated at 5055 lbs. The same version trailer WITHOUT the deck has axles at 4175 lbs and 205/75R14 C load rating. The trailer height is also a foot lower, suggesting that the springs are not mounted on the top of the axles.
http://www.crossroadsrv.com/z-1/floorplans
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Old 01-12-2015, 05:44 PM   #13
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Nice to see they put the proper tires and obviously suspension .
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Old 01-13-2015, 06:33 AM   #14
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As I recall from my Statics classes....If the center of gravity of the ATV's is halfway between the trailer axles and the rear wheels of TV, then the weight is shared equally between the TV and the trailer axle. The closer the CG gets to the TV axle, the larger the percentage of the weight that is supported by TV. You can modify this equation to say the TV axles are the hitch.
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Old 01-16-2015, 03:55 PM   #15
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Well, it's looking like the only safe answer is to either upgrade my TV or sell the trailer....
Any experienced opinions on a 2002 Suburban 2500 XL 8.1, has factory tow, and I would probably put a class V receiver on it. Don't know which rear it has. It has 71K on it...
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Old 01-16-2015, 07:06 PM   #16
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Before you do that, load the trailer and take it to a scale....
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Old 01-18-2015, 06:50 PM   #17
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Old 01-18-2015, 09:12 PM   #18
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ZT252TD too heavy for F250

Last year I bought a Rockwood Freedom pop up tent trailer with front toy deck and upgraded from a Ram 1500 4x4 to a 2011 F250 crew cab short box 4x4, 6.2 with 3.73 rear. Decided to purchase a 2015 Zinger Z-1 ZT252TD. Put two harley baggers on the front and went to Sturgis from Calgary. 8 mpg loaded with four adults. Felt okay driving as well but definitely sagged in the rear.

Got home, installed Firestone airbags and put 80 lbs per side. Loaded our two touring edition quads and left for Labor Day weekend to Cranbrook. Went across the local scale at Aldersyde and was shocked at how much weight was on the trucks rear axle. FYI, also have 1200 lb weight distribution bars installed.

1. F250 rear axle GAWR is 6100 lbs. Went across scale at 7600 lbs
2. F250 factory Michelin tires rated to 3640 lb each
3. F250 factory Class IV hitch rated to 1250 lbs max tongue wt with w/d bars. I figure tongue weight is 670 lbs + 750 lb quad #1 and 750 lb quad #2

So, now I've decided to change trucks AGAIN. Found a used 2011 F450 dually with a diesel and 4.30 rears. I'm putting a Curt hitch on rated for 2500 lb tongue weight.

Like the rest of you the trailer dealer said, F250, that truck is plenty for what you're planning to do an haul. Going by the numbers from the scale and truck ratings, I'm WAY over it's abilities.

I didn't want a rear deck style as they're about 20K more to purchase. Let my experience be a lesson to anyone wanting a front toy deck. You need a dually to be safe folks. SRW one tons don't meet the rating whether chev/ford or dodge.

Good luck!
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Old 01-19-2015, 06:47 AM   #19
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Kurt makes a nice class 5 hitch. I never liked the look of the front to haulers. Was always thinking tongue weight would be heavy.
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Old 01-19-2015, 04:32 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakesz28 View Post
Kurt makes a nice class 5 hitch. I never liked the look of the front to haulers. Was always thinking tongue weight would be heavy.
It's a no-brainer, all the weight is on the tongue!
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