Ford Superduty 6.2L or 6.7L

[Lloyd]

Originally Posted by NoodlesWIU

These are interesting perspectives. I have to admit, I am relying on the experience of each of you to make a determination. It is just difficult to justify $10K extra when I live I live in the Midwest and will be using the vehicle mostly for everyday travel to work, and around town, but summer weekends with a trailer in relatively flat lands, but 1 trip a year maybe over the mountains. When I met with a salesman he of course recommended the diesel but also stated you are going to want to hook up that trailer every now and then in the off season to tow something to keep that transmission working well. Is that BS?

Like you stated, these are all interesting perspectives.

This is my experiences.
I had a 2003 Duramax. Owned it for 10 years and only put approx. 60,000 mi. on by the time I traded for my present Eco-Boost.
In the winter after the last fall run, it sat in the storage building until spring. I would start it periodically, but rarely did I ever take it out on the road. Everything seemed to work just as well when I traded for the Eco-Boost as it ever did.
In my opinion the salesman's comment about hooking up to something and pulling is not correct.

Now I'm fortunate enough to have been able to compare apples to apples with both trucks. I have the same 5th wheel.
Did the Duramax handle the trailer any better then the Eco-Boost?
Yes and no.
In some areas I could see where the Duramax was superior, most of the time it was a toss up.
I have towed thru the mountains with both trucks. I have never seen a lack of power from either one.
I live in the flat country just as you do. Most of my miles are put on here, and, without the trailer hooked on.
I think our units probably are "close" in weight.
If you were to ever consider going bigger, heavier, I think you would be better off with the diesel one ton dully.
With all that said, and the way we use our truck and trailer I'm glad I have what I have.
One other thing to consider about Ford's f150 Eco-Boost is you cannot get as heavy a truck any more as the one I have. So you might want to take that into consideration also.

[cowboy_71]

Originally Posted by NoodlesWIU

These are interesting perspectives. I have to admit, I am relying on the experience of each of you to make a determination. It is just difficult to justify $10K extra when I live I live in the Midwest and will be using the vehicle mostly for everyday travel to work, and around town, but summer weekends with a trailer in relatively flat lands, but 1 trip a year maybe over the mountains. When I met with a salesman he of course recommended the diesel but also stated you are going to want to hook up that trailer every now and then in the off season to tow something to keep that transmission working well. Is that BS?

Sounds fishy to me...

[superduty glampers]

If you go with a gas F-250 get the 4.30 rear axle, that would give you between 3000-3400 pounds of payload and a tow rating of 15,300 pounds. Just remember the more you put on the truck the less payload you will have. You will probably need to order one with the 4.30 rear axle. For the record I get 9.7 to 12.7 pulling my Redwood ( from Louisville ky to Tampa FL) .

[frosty42]

Gallon per gallon, diesel is more than efficient than gasoline. With modern diesels, here is where they shine:

- Higher MPG's when traveling (loaded or unloaded) more than 20 miles.
- Exhaust Brake (even in flat country, this is a huge safety factor when pulling)
- Longer motor life (if maintained properly)
- Capability and ride comfort. Mine has the stock rear coil-5 link suspension and it rides better than any other vehicle I own.

The downside to a diesel:

- Maintenance costs is higher. It's not a $30 oil change. Mine cost around $60. Fuel filters are even higher.
- Short trips everyday will kill a diesel motor. They like heat and long runs.
- Higher purchase price.

Now, to the point of putting a load on the transmission during the off-season...first time I have ever heard that one. Many people still believe that Ram has a junk transmission and nothing could be further from the truth. Did they ten years ago? Probably but not today. Visit any one of the diesel truck forums and read up and who and what problems really exist. The debate of who makes the "best" truck will live on forever. Bottom line is that they ALL have issues from time to time. It comes down to personal choice and preference.

[frosty42]

Originally Posted by superduty glampers

If you go with a gas F-250 get the 4.30 rear axle, that would give you between 3000-3400 pounds of payload and a tow rating of 15,300 pounds. Just remember the more you put on the truck the less payload you will have. You will probably need to order one with the 4.30 rear axle. For the record I get 9.7 to 12.7 pulling my Redwood ( from Louisville ky to Tampa FL) .

The downside to this is that when empty and used as a daily driver, the higher gearing will kill the fuel efficiency. From what has been described, 3.55 or 3.73 gearing would address 99% of the needs.

[Donjamin]

My only comment is stay away from any of the 6.0L Ford diesel engine trucks. I've owned a 1998 F-250 SD 7.3L, a 2005 F-250 6.0L SD and now a 2015 F-250 SD 6.4L. By far, the truck that spent more time in the shop getting the turbo, EGR, glow plug module, and injectors replaced combined was the 2005. 3 turbo rebuilds in the first 50K on the 2005. So, be forewarned. A good friend still owns my former 1998 F-250. After all these years, it has had no major issues. So, either a 7.3L or a new 6.4L would be my recommendation.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by NoodlesWIU

These are interesting perspectives. I have to admit, I am relying on the experience of each of you to make a determination. It is just difficult to justify $10K extra when I live I live in the Midwest and will be using the vehicle mostly for everyday travel to work, and around town, but summer weekends with a trailer in relatively flat lands, but 1 trip a year maybe over the mountains. When I met with a salesman he of course recommended the diesel but also stated you are going to want to hook up that trailer every now and then in the off season to tow something to keep that transmission working well. Is that BS?

The short answer to that is "Hell No", typical salesman with his lips moving. I will say the diesel trannys are built to tow a lot more than your gas engine tranny.
The fellow mentioned his '03 Duramax & I'll say compared to todays Duramax is like comparing a 4 cylinder to a souped up V8, absolutely no comparison.
Yes the diesel may cost more, but 10-15 years from now it's just getting broke in & your Eco Boost is being recycled scrap iron. My son has a Dodge with the Cummins with 278k & still going strong.

[Lloyd]

Well Tim, you asked for opinions and you have received some.
Just remember, there are some that get very passionate when it comes to talking about or defending their diesels.
Sort it all out and separate the chaff from oats and then decide what is best for you and yours.
Good luck with your decision.
A hundred years from now it won't make any difference anyway.

I forgot to add in my previous post---I had the Bully Dog program installed on the old 03 Duramax which increased the HP tremendously.

[superduty glampers]

Originally Posted by frosty42

The downside to this is that when empty and used as a daily driver, the higher gearing will kill the fuel efficiency. From what has been described, 3.55 or 3.73 gearing would address 99% of the needs.

With the gas truck you can only get 3.73 or 4.30, the mpg difference is 1.3 mpgs between the two but with the 3.73 will really limit what you can tow if you upgrade to a fifth wheel.

[frosty42]

Originally Posted by superduty glampers

With the gas truck you can only get 3.73 or 4.30, the mpg difference is 1.3 mpgs between the two but with the 3.73 will really limit what you can tow if you upgrade to a fifth wheel.

Good point for the Fords...I was thinking strictly Ram. I am geared with 3.42 and rated to pull 17,960.

But your point is valid as regardless of make, the model selected will have specific values that need to be considered. Just another nugget of information for the OP to consider!

[superduty glampers]

Originally Posted by frosty42

Good point for the Fords...I was thinking strictly Ram. I am geared with 3.42 and rated to pull 17,960.

But your point is valid as regardless of make, the model selected will have specific values that need to be considered. Just another nugget of information for the OP to consider!

Fords my bread and butter, I went with gas because my trucks main purpose in life is to pull my 5er. It's not my daily driver and it sits a lot when not towing and that would kill a Diesel.

[r2millers]

Originally Posted by Donjamin

My only comment is stay away from any of the 6.0L Ford diesel engine trucks. I've owned a 1998 F-250 SD 7.3L, a 2005 F-250 6.0L SD and now a 2015 F-250 SD 6.4L. By far, the truck that spent more time in the shop getting the turbo, EGR, glow plug module, and injectors replaced combined was the 2005. 3 turbo rebuilds in the first 50K on the 2005. So, be forewarned. A good friend still owns my former 1998 F-250. After all these years, it has had no major issues. So, either a 7.3L or a new 6.4L would be my recommendation.

So much to say here. Yes my 6.0 does need extra care and maintenance and I've got to pull the turbo soon and replace the unison ring. I like the 19 mpg, no def, no particulate filter, unlike Ford newer years.
Our 250 handles the 15,500 trailer gvw just fine, knowing the 350 has another heavy leaf and a different door sticker.
Like most here, you can't explain the power benefit of a diesel unless you have one, and I too, wouldn't go back either.
The old 7.3 was a rock solid engine but just couldn't meet federal emissions standards, hence the 6.0. The 6.4 twin turbo has its issues, burning up the turbos when sending lots of fuel out of the rear two injectors to regenerate.
The new 6.7's have a new concept of reversing the traditional set up, intake on the outside and exhaust towards the center of the engine. Huge power, worse mileage and very expensive to fix.
Boils down to picking your poison.

[woodwalker]

You need one of these 590hp and 1150 ft lbs of tourqe

[superduty glampers]

Dang Shane, don't rip the hitch out of your bed.

[Donjamin]

Originally Posted by r2millers

Boils down to picking your poison.

I agree whole hardheartedly! I didn't know what "diesel exhaust fluid" was until I bought my 2015 F-250 SD. My 2005 Ford SD certainly didn't have that new EPA required additive. I just talked to the kid that bought my 2005. He just had the turbo rebuilt for the 4th time in the history of the truck under the extended warranty he picked up from me at the time of the sale. Based on experience, I would not consider a 6.0L Ford diesel engine.

D.

[woodwalker]

Originally Posted by superduty glampers

Dang Shane, don't rip the hitch out of your bed.

No I learned to keep my foot out of it. If not the tires spin on takeoff. It is sure nice when pulling the mountain passes though

[Lloyd]

I think we all have given the op more info then he was asking for, but just to add one more thing.

If you are considering something with tremendous HP, you might want to think about what the consequences could be.
When I installed the Bullydog, I first called the factory to see if there might be any serious complications, or unwanted results.
He assured me that the program I had chosen for the Duramax was relatively safe.
He then told me about another program that I was now eligible to down load into my programmer free of charge. They called it (Crazy Larry, and appropriately so).
As I remember it produced somewhere around 500 or 525 HP.
He said it really wasn't recommended due to the possible damage it could cause to the differentials, drive shafts, u joints, and he even mentioned the near indestructible Allison transmission.
So, just some food for thought.

[superduty glampers]

Originally Posted by Donjamin

I agree whole hardheartedly! I didn't know what "diesel exhaust fluid" was until I bought my 2015 F-250 SD. My 2005 Ford SD certainly didn't have that new EPA required additive. I just talked to the kid that bought my 2005. He just had the turbo rebuilt for the 4th time in the history of the truck under the extended warranty he picked up from me at the time of the sale. Based on experience, I would not consider a 6.0L Ford diesel engine.

D.

Ford did not build the 6.0 it was outsourced,(now that company has been talking with G.M. to build there motors). Ford builds there own motors now, that 6.0 costed them millions on top of millions.

[woodwalker]

[QUOTE=Lloyd;107803]I think we all have given the op more info then he was asking for, but just to add one more thing.

If you are considering something with tremendous HP, you might want to think about what the consequences could be.
When I installed the Bullydog, I first called the factory to see if there might be any serious complications, or unwanted results.
He assured me that the program I had chosen for the Duramax was relatively safe.
He then told me about another program that I was now eligible to down load into my programmer free of charge. They called it (Crazy Larry, and appropriately so).
As I remember it produced somewhere around 500 or 525 HP.
He said it really wasn't recommended due to the possible damage it could cause to the differentials, drive shafts, u joints, and he even mentioned the near indestructible Allison transmission.
So, just some food for thought.[/QUOTE
Loyd
I have been building off road trucks and using programs since their inception. You are correct in if not used properly you can do a lot of damage. I'm just used to having hp after all these years. This new duramax has more than enough power as well as the other 2 to haul big trailers stock

[NoodlesWIU]

So the take away from what I have learned here from each of you are the following points.

1.) A Diesel F-350 would make my towing experience more pleasant as I would be running the engine at lower RPMs than its gas counterpart.
2.) Short drives with a diesel are very hard on them as they need to get up to operating temperature.
3.) If I were to get a gas it is recommended getting the 4.3 axle ratio over the 3.73 but this would hinder fuel efficiency by 1-2 mpg.
4.) Diesel maintenance is more expensive.
5.) Diesel fuel per gallon is more expensive, however diesels are more efficient thereby making it a wash if we look at numbers when not towing.

I think I just about have all of the info I need to make a well thought out educated decision. The last piece of information I would like to know is what is real world MPG's for both the 6.2L Gas, and 6.7L Diesel? Both around town, and when towing. Could anyone offer real world insight into this questions?

My current 2010 F-150 is a little over 5 years old with about 114,000 miles on it. I drive a lot, but I do have a lot of short trips that are anywhere from 1 to 10 miles I make on a daily basis but longer weekend runs out of town around 50-100 miles away.

I am concerned about the comment of short trips kill a diesel. With the knowingly overly broad description of my driving habits, would I be putting a lot of stress or harming the engine if I purchase a diesel?

Again, thank you everyone for all of your insight and help. It is absolutely invaluable!