Pin Box Movement

[Dayle1]

Originally Posted by hhh

Can anyone tell me how many bolts you have holding your pin box to the frame? Mine originally had 5 on each side but one was taken out by the dealer when they lowered the pin box. Lippert is saying it came with 6 bolts and the reason for the flex is because there are now only 4. My observations are that the pin box is not slipping on the frame but that the whole frame is moving.

Absurd claim from Lippert. 1) my unit only has 4 bolts per side but it is a standard pin box, can someone with another Roto-flex pin box comment? 2) If you check your unit like I did by looking at the inside of pin box mount, then you will probably also see the gap between the front crossmember and the plywood floor and that will disappear when hooked up. 3) If Lippert is right, then when hooked up, you would be able to put a piece of tape across the side of the pin box and the pin box mount, then slit it vertically with a knife, then unhook you would see an offset between the two sides of the tape. 4) For Lippert to be right, the holes in the pin box and/or the pin box mount would have to be significantly oversized to allow that much movement, and just the holes that are being used since the other holes are clearly not oversized.

Apparently they haven't looked at your pictures.

Edited by: Dayle1

[Lloyd]

I took a measurement from the bottom of the cap to the pinbox being careful so I can remeasure in the same position. Then hooked up and measured again. I had a strong 1/4 in. difference.
Now I know I stated previously a strong 1/2 in. I think I'm suffering from CRS. That's why I went out and measured again today.
I looked inside the box and couldn't see any differences where it meets the floor.
Looking at it when we got back from last trip I was concerned after reading this thread because I could see where the caulking seal on the outer corner meets the cover on on the bottom, had broke loose. I know these things have to flex, so I guess it's something we all should be aware of and keep an eye on it.

[Dayle1]

Originally Posted by Old Farmer

I took a measurement from the bottom of the cap to the pinbox being careful so I can remeasure in the same position. Then hooked up and measured again. I had a strong 1/4 in. difference. Now I know I stated previously a strong 1/2 in. I think I'm suffering from CRS. That's why I went out and measured again today. I looked inside the box and couldn't see any differences where it meets the floor. Looking at it when we got back from last trip I was concerned after reading this thread because I could see where the caulking seal on the outer corner meets the cover on on the bottom, had broke loose. I know these things have to flex, so I guess it's something we all should be aware of and keep an eye on it.

Lloyd,



Thanks for the additional input. With the old style cap, your front crossmember is one straight steel box. But from what I can determine, the new style cap has to have an angled crossmember. In addition, it will connect to the side frame closer to the rear crossmember, so it's ability to resist deflection will be less. Anyone that has an old style cap, can you determine if the rear crossmember is a single or double crossmember??

[gball]

I have a roto-flex pin box on my unit. I just finished taking pictures based on Larry Day's discussion and observations and the pin box on my unit moves approximately 1/2 of an inch. Here are some before and after photos.



Before photo: Notice position of bolt holes when unhooked. From the pattern of the bolt holes it would appear that the front flexes the most.



After photo: Bolt hold position has changed after hooking up.



Before photo inside pinbox: Notice position of nail when unhooked.



After photo inside pinbox: Nail position has changed after hooking up.





From the discussion in this thread, it would appear that most, if not all, pin boxes have anywhere from 1/2 to 3/4 inches of flex.

[Dayle1]

George,





Excellent photos and you have five bolts with your Roto-flex pin box and that is the way it came from the factory, not 6. Guess Lippert is wrong about 4 bolts being the problem with hhh's unit.



Edited by: Dayle1

[hhh]

I only see 5 bolts on gball's unit... am I missing something? Thanks for the pics gball... it appears yours moves about half the amount mine does. I would guess your pin weight is a couple hundred lbs. more then mine.

What I find interesting is that the Lippert rep has admitted there is a problem. While they are trying to blame it on the bolts aat least they have claimed it is not the way it should be. Randy is not really buying Lippert's claim and is moving it up the ladder at Lippert. I guess they are attending some kind of rally so it has been hard for him to get a hold of anyone there. All I can do is wait to see what happens from here.

While I couldn't really look inside the mounting area I was able to get my arm up in there and feel around. Unhooked I could not get my finger between the floor and the crossmember front or back. Guessing I would say there is maybe 1/2" between the crossmember and the floor. It's raining today so I'm not going to mess around with trying to get pictures.






Edited by: hhh

[Dayle1]

OK, here is my opinion, but it also assumes that the old style frame had a single rear crossmember, so I would appreciate knowing from those owners if my assumption is right. If the old style frame had identical crossmembers, front and rear, both in length, thickness, etc., then deflection under load would be equal for both crossmembers. As I stated earlier in this thread, the rear crossmember would deflect down in the center and the front crossmember would deflect up in the center.



The new frame has dual rear crossmembers, at least mine does. Other owners with the new front cap can confirm if I'm right. Now deflection at the rear crossmember will be cut in half. Also, the front crossmember apparently is partly angled for the notched cap, so it is slightly longer. And it attaches to the main frame further from the king pin. For all of these reasons, the front crossmember will deflect more than with the old style frame. So, when using a point on the front cap for reference, measured deflection of the king pin will be more with the new frame.



The big question is how much deflection of the front crossmember can the welds handle w/o failure? Also now, two of us have seen that the closet floor has been pushed up by the flexing front crossmember. While this is not a major problem, this is not what should happen with the closet floor and as a minimum it becomes a significant air leak.

[Hunter11]

"The big question is how much deflection of the front crossmember can the welds handle w/o failure?"



That is the million dollar question Larry.....

[hhh]

OK, Larry got me curious so I went out and took some pics with the rig unloaded.My CF285RL has the flat floor bedroom were I think Larry's is the conventional step floor bedroom. I got my head up there real good and it appears that the floor sits directly on top of the cross members. There is some white caulking that is visible between the cross member and floor. This means that any deflection translates directly to the bedroom floor.

Picture of front cross member


Picture of rear cross member



Edited by: hhh

[Dayle1]

Originally Posted by hhh

Unhooked I could not get my finger between the floor and the crossmember front or back. Guessing I would say there is maybe 1/2" between the crossmember and the floor. It's raining today so I'm not going to mess around with trying to get pictures.

Hank,



When hooked up that space will go to zero.

[Dayle1]

Originally Posted by hhh

OK, Larry got me curious so I went out and took some pics with the rig unloaded.My CF285RL has the flat floor bedroom were I think Larry's is the conventional step floor bedroom. I got my head up there real good and it appears that the floor sits directly on top of the cross members. There is some white caulking that is visible between the cross member and floor. Thgis means that any deflection translates directly to the bedroom floor.Picture of front cross member

Hank,



Even with your flat floor, there is still a step up right in front of the wardrobe doors ( I think). This is the top of the rear crossmember. The plywood of the closet floor extends to the front crossmember and it is nailed to both crossmembers.

[hhh]

Yes there is. I didn't know how far back the cross members went. But I see where you have a gap between the floor and cross member and I really don't.


Edited by: hhh

[Dayle1]

Originally Posted by hhh

Yes there is. I didn't know how far back the cross members went. But I see where you have a gap between the floor and cross member and I really don't.

Hank,



Next time you hook up, look in the closet at the very front of the floor above the pin box. It will probably be bowed up. You might put a piece of masking tape on the front wall flush with the floor. Then take a look at it after unhooking.

[Lstreutker]

Have you noticed any up and down movement with the body in relation to the pin box while going down the road. that how I found that thepin box welds had let loose from the frame,. that was with a straight up and down pin box, the new extended ones put more flex and stress on the welds

[hhh]

The body does not appear to move. The pin box mount is moving up and down within the opening in the overhang.

Let me edit this and say that I can see the body of the trailer moving up and down on the pin box as I go down the road. Looking in my rearview mirror I can nomally see a very small gap back to the trailer itself so I have this white sliver I can see. As I travel I can see it get bigger and disappear, at other times I can see one side is much larger then the other meaning the trailer is actually leaning.... I do have a 4-way head on my hitch.
Edited by: hhh

[hhh]

I am taking my unit into Crossroads tomorrow. Lippert is going to look at it and see what is going on. Thanks for everyone's replies and help!

[hhh]

Just an additional note. I took measurements from the front of the pin box to the amber light above it. Unloaded the distance was 14 9/16". Loaded it was 13 5/8" so it is moving 15/16". I did not notice any flex of the closet floor in the bedroom.

[hhh]

Took it in for repair today. Lippert will be out to look at it on Wedsenday. I should know more shortly after that. It sure looks lonely



Here is a picture of the repair facility.

[Lloyd]

Are those pictures of CRs buildings?

[hhh]

That is the picture of the repair facility that is across the street from their manufacturing plant(s).