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Old 10-04-2018, 10:11 PM   #1
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Tire and Loading Information Vehicle Placard clarification req'd

Hi, doing my homework and trying to understand my F150 weights before buying a TT.
The Tire loading information decal and the statement " “The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed XXX kg or XXX lbs.” . For my truck this reads 1801 lbs.
Do you have to remove the drivers weight and a full tank of fuel from this figure ?
Or has this figure already accounted for a drivers weight of 150lb and a full tank of fuel ?
The reason I am asking is I have seen many different interpretations with many saying the figure has already taken account of the driver weight (150lbs) and a full tank of fuel.
It makes a big difference to available payload especially with a 135 liter tank.
Also should you remove a complete WDS and anti sway bar set up from this figure or just the stinger ?.

Many thanks for your inputs.
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Old 10-06-2018, 11:35 AM   #2
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I think this decal is what you are referring to?
For my truck the cargo should not exceed 2176#
By what it states on the tag that includes passengers, cargo, I'm not sure on fuel. Now, I think they are a little light on the tire PSI for when I'm loaded. My tires are 10 ply (E) and the sidewalls state 80 PSI to carry the full load of what they are rated for--3195#. I never get to that cargo weight on the tires so I don't run 80# PSI. Others say differently, but I don't see any sense to pumping them up to max air when I'm not carrying max load. It makes for to stiff and harsh ride that just pounds everything to heck. People forget that the tires are part of your suspension also, and they should allowed do their job to. Which is to absorb part of the shock when hitting bumps and our wonderful road joints.
Just don't get more RV then your truck can handle. That's not any fun towing.

Hope this helps.
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Old 10-07-2018, 10:47 AM   #3
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Can anybody add to this to help this member out?
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Old 10-07-2018, 04:05 PM   #4
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What year, model, sub model, bed size and options do you have on your Ford?
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Old 10-07-2018, 08:51 PM   #5
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Hi Mark, Here's an extract I shared with Lloyd on PM. Basically its not the whole weight exercise that I need help on (at the moment) but a specific part mainly how to interpret the available payload from the decal in the truck. Any help/input would be appreciated.

Here’s details of my truck, 2015 3.5 EcoBoost 4x4 Super crew cab 6.5’ box 157” WB XLT. It has the 53A trailer tow package rated for 11100# plus option 67T Integrated trailer brake controller. We also have some other options minor plus we have a cap added.
From one of the side decal’s it says the GVWR is 7050# and the tire loading decal say’s the payload (occupants and cargo) should not exceed 1801#.
From the truck manual and from the Ford 2015 towing brochure it says the GCWR is 16100# and the Max loaded trailer rating is 10700#.
As per my first post it’s the payload wt that concerns me, I understand what you are saying about the tires and its my intention to upgrade as you suggest but if I can get there will try out the current OEM tires fitted, FYI they are Goodyear Wrangler Fortitude HT P275/65R18 116T A/T rated at max load of 2756# and 51 max psi.

We have been looking at TT in the length range of 28 to 33 ft depending on the layout. Typically these TT fully loaded weights are from 7500# to 8700#. One of these would be ideal for us and we are ready to drop the cash in getting one except I am concerned about the impact of the tongue weight to the payload figure of 1801#. Note these are well within the max loaded trailer rating of 10700#.

Lets look at 2 scenario’s both with a TT fully loaded weight of 8000#.
Scenario A assumes the payload figure of 1801 has already accounted for a drivers basic weight of 150# plus a full tank of fuel. From the payload 1801# I would subtract the following weights: my wife and our dog 225# + truck cap 180# and drivers wt delta 10# to give 1386# available for TT tongue weight and of course some part (or all of ) a WD / ASW system. This assumes nothing else can be carried in the truck unless I have some free weight after sorting out the tongue / hitch.

Scenario B assumes the payload figure of 1801 does not account for a driver’s basic weight of 150# plus a full tank of fuel. Therefore from the payload 1801# I would subtract the same weights as scenario A plus an additional 150# for the driver and 224# for the fuel (136 liters) to give 1012# available for TT tongue weight and of course some part (or all of ) a WD / ASW system. If this is correct then currently I am looking at TT that are outside of my limits.

If I take a tongue weight of 13% of 7500# = 975# or 13% of 8700# = 1131# this would be the range of tongue weight impact and I have to as I understand add the weight of the tow hitch (WD/ASW). Again is this the full hitch system or just the stinger piece installed in the truck upto the ball receptacle while the rest would be part of the TT loaded weight.

Do you see where I am coming from ? Until I understand this I can’t select a TT. I am hoping that once this is resolved then from the other tow figures I don’t see another problem coming up ie 10700# max loaded trailer or even the 16100# GCWR. I believe the curb weight of the truck is around 5250#. Yes I realize that the weight on each axle needs to be checked plus the current tire spec seems okay but depends on actual road check for stability.

Guess I have dragged on a bit and gone into detail, unfortunately its due to my past life as an Aerospace Engineer who has to understand all facts and data before proceeding. It drives my wife mad but when it comes to safety how can you not.

Thanks
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:15 PM   #6
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Check out the attached. Page 4 Hope it helps
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Old 10-07-2018, 10:41 PM   #7
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Ok I will take a stab at this.

With a GVWR of 7050 you would need to subtract the LOADED weight of your truck this would include you and any other passengers and a full tank of fuel just as you would load to go camping and I would include the hitch. This also accounts for any accessories such as your truck cap.

Take that number and subtract it from the 7050 and that is your real world payload. Ex. 7050 - 5800 = 1250 and that is the number you have to work with.

You have a GCWR of 16100 so subtract the weight of your truck and that is how much trailer you can pull. Ex. 16100 - 5800 = 10300 with up to 1250 tongue weight.

This being said these numbers are the maximum and are only a example as you do not know what your truck will actually weigh. So if I were you I would load the truck with everything including a full tank of fuel and weigh it so you have a baseline to start from. Also I would go a little short of max ratings as a safety margin or if you add something later you have room for it without being overloaded.

Hope all this makes sense to you.
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Old 10-16-2018, 08:38 PM   #8
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Well I finally visited our local weigh station (gravel pit). I now have a baseline weight of my truck to work with. The truck weight including all of my options plus truck cap and a full tank of fuel and myself (161Lb) was 5776 Lb, not a bad guess dagst1. So following suggestion from dagst1 I have added to the 5776 the weights of my wife, dog and a hitch which should represent a typical trip weight of the truck. At this stage I have neglected any additional cargo weight in the truck so I can understand the tongue weight. So total truck weight loaded is 776 +285 = 6061LB. This would give me an available payload for the tongue wt impact of 7050 - 6061 = 989LB. For the max loaded trailer weight being 16100 - 6061 = 10039LB. So my next question for my support group is, if I take a trailer ie Sunset SS 251RK from the Crossroads web site it shows a dry weight of 4894LB, carrying capacity 2072LB and a hitch weight of 634LB. Obviously the total trailer 4894 + 2072 = 6966LB would be acceptable with margin for my truck as my figure is 10039LB. Am I doing this right ? Now for the hitch weight, what exactly is the figure of 634Lb ? should the hitch weight be on the total loaded trailer weight say 13% of 6966 LB being 905 LB or do you use the 634 LB ? Also does the stated hitch weight figure take into consideration of the propane & possible a battery? Only having an available payload of 989LB for the hitch weight then this is getting close to max if you take a fully loaded trailer weight. Previous feedback much appreciated and more feedback again much appreciated. Please bear with me as I am slowly getting there. I would much rather be educated by you guys than a salesman eager to get a sale. Best regards
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Old 10-17-2018, 06:07 PM   #9
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The hitch weight is the dry tongue weight not including any propane, batteries, water, etc. absolute worse case scenario. You would maybe be 13% of the trailers Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, so using your remaining payload you would be good for around a 7,000-7500lb fully loaded out camper. Now keep in mind that the max payload of your truck is spread out over the front and rear axle. If you look at your door sticker you will see the gross weights for both the front and rear axle. Also remember that a properly set up WDH will sling some of that tongue weight up onto the front axle of your truck and a couple hundred pounds back onto the front axle of the trailer. I used to really fret over every little pound but honestly I don’t think our trucks are going to just break in half being a couple hundred pounds over max payload on the occasional camping trip.

Take it for what it’s worth but i have a 2011 screw ecoboost 4x4 and my payload is only 1680. GVWR is 7650. Empty weight of the truck is 5970. We have a 28’ long camper with a dry weight of 5147 and fully loaded out for a 10 day beach trip including a couple hundred pounds of firewood, clothes, dog crates, beach canopy’s, grill, groceries, chairs, tables, pretty mich everything but the kitchen sink. We rolled across the scales at 6900lbs trailer weight. Now in the back of the truck i had 2 kayaks on the roof rack, more firewood, bicycles, blue ox sway pro weight distribution hitch. In the cab was myself, the wife, 4 year old son and his car seat, 2 weenie dogs, and an Australian shephard. Total scaled weight of the truck was 7,600lbs (3420 on the front and 4180 on the rear). 50lbs under my total GVWR, however my RAWR (rear axle weight rating) is only 4,050lbs, so technically I was 130lbs over weight on my absolute worse case fully loaded down camping scenario. But pulled it from WNC down to Hilton head area and back without any hesitation at 65-70mph the hole way. No sway, no “white knuckles”.

Now I am fixing to open up a big can of worms with the weight police, but here we go. The way I see it the door sticker gives those weights on stock tires at “X” PSI (typically a lower psi so you get that smooth ride) Now I have upgraded my tires to a 10ply and run them at 65psi when towing (I forget the actual weight on the tire loading chart, but its close to 2500lbs carrying capacity per tire at that psi) well over my scaled 4180lbs on the rear. I’ve also upgraded my brakes to powerstop Z36 towing pads with drilled and slotted rotors front and back. And I’ve installed Firestone ride rite airbags. I run about 35lbs in the bags and that raises the rear of the truck right back to stock level when towing and with my WDH set the front fender is also exactly at stock height. I have put a scaled 1yard bag of sand in the bed at 2300lbs plus myself in the truck (about 800lbs over my payload when counting myself) aired the bags up to about 65psi and leveled the truck right out and drove/stopped as if there was nothing in the back at all. Have done the same with loads of firewood as well. Long story short the truck has plenty of pulling power (and stopping power) and the occasional going over the max payload isn’t going to hurt them. I live in WNC as well so always pulling up and down hills and have never strained the truck pulling our camper. Even in the middle of summer when I come back up the mountain from South Carolina the warmest I have ever seen the trans was 214 and that was after pulling a 7% grade for several miles at 60mph in 4th gear (love this truck!) would a 3/4 ton Powerstroke do it better... absolutely! Is it necessary for my needs? Absolutey not....
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