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Old 02-22-2011, 02:01 PM   #1
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I am purchasing a 2011 Crossroads Cruiser CF31QB. The dealer is giving me the following 2 hitch options. As far as price is concerned my portion of the negotiated cost is roughly the same for either option.

1. Reese 15K (non sliding)basic 5th wheel hitch and will swap the factory pin box with a SideWinder pinbox

2. Pullrite superglide 15K

From all the posts I have read, both will accomplish the same thing but has anyone used both and could give me some advice.

Any Cruiser owners out there use one or the other?

Will I be able to go 90 degrees with the Pullrite?

For current owners of either one is there something you dont like about your hitch setup?


Thanks
Josh
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:49 AM   #2
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If cost is the same, here are at least some of the pros and cons



Superglide, - heavier hitch, more maintenance, + probably more people will recommend it at equal price

Sidewinder, + lighter hitch, faster response when backing up, pin box can be rotated out of the way when parked



With the new front cap on the 2011s, you could probably get by w/o either option. How do I know? Well 21 yrs towing fifth wheels with short bed trucks. First 13 yrs were with a fixed position hitch and the past 8 yrs with a slider hitch that hasn't been used in the past 6 yrs. And that is with the old style Cruiser front cap.
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:14 AM   #3
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I can't answer your question as far as a slider hitch because I have never owned one because I only buy LWB trucks. Now I can answer some questions about the Sidewinder since we have one on our trailer. With this hitch I can maneuver our 35' trailer better than I could our old 30' Cruiser. As Larry said you can back and turn much tighter and faster because your pivot point is under the pin not at the hitch. I can also hook and unhook at different angles if need be. I did not really need the Sidewinder as I have a LWB truck but the trailer came with it as part of a factory deal and I have to say so far I have really enjoyed it. Like I said, I know nothing about slider hitches other than what I have read or been told by other people but if I had to choose between the two I know what I would go with.
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Old 02-23-2011, 03:44 AM   #4
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The Superglide will put less bending stress on the trailer frame where the hitch is attached.



Sidewinder will add bending or twisting stress to that part of the frame when turned.
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:21 AM   #5
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What information is that based on?
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Old 02-23-2011, 05:55 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BipeFlier
The Superglide will put less bending stress on the trailer frame where the hitch is attached.

Â*

Sidewinder will add bending or twisting stress to that part of the frame when turned.


Please explain how you determined this? The Sidewinder is free to rotate a full 360 degrees at the pin box, as many times as you care to turn it. It puts as much twisting stress on the trailer frame as a standard ball mount puts on a TT frame w/o WD or sway control. Which is zero the way I see it.The Sidewinder does put more stress on the hitch since the wedge is against the sides of the swivel plate to keep the pin box from rotating around the king pin.
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Old 02-23-2011, 08:59 AM   #7
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The twisting to which I refer is simple physics.



If you move the load point from, lets say 18 inches in front of the attachment point to the frame to 18 inches at a 90 degree angle that offsets the load to the side. If the pin weight is 1000 lbs that makes a moment about the point of attachment of 18 X 1000# which equals 18000 inch lbs of torque on the attachment point.



Hold your arm straight out and have the DW push up or down on your hand. Now bend your elbow 90 degrees and repeat. Can your shoulder tell the difference? Same thing on the frame.



Iv'e been wrong before so if you don't agree you are entitled to your opinion and I wll listen to all rebutals.
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:34 AM   #8
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I can understand that there would be some additional stress when you are at angles but the fact that several mfg's are offering the sidewinder as an option to come preinstalled from the factory tells me that it is within an acceptable level.

Josh
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:56 AM   #9
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Well I am not going to argue or debatephysics or anything else. I know ours was installed by Lippert when the frame was built with no additional bracing to the frame than any other PP. Now if they felt like it was not going to cause any additional stress or strain on the frame why should I be worried about it when they would have to have covered any frame damage from it. We have had ours for right at 3 years now and it doesn't seem to be doing any damage to the trailer that I can tell. So say what you will but we are happy with ours and I would buy another one.



Josh, if you get that new trailer in time we would love to have you join us at the Texas Rally in Kerrville at the end of March. There will be a lot of Crossroads owners there more than willing to answer any questions you might have.
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Old 02-23-2011, 11:10 AM   #10
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Thanks Keith,



We get our trailer on 3/5, however my daughter has a cheer competition the same weekend as the Rally so we will not be able to make it.



Josh
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Old 02-23-2011, 11:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BipeFlier
The twisting to which I refer is simple physics.

Â*

If you move the load point from, lets say 18 inches in front of the attachment point to the frame to 18 inches at a 90 degree angle that offsets the load to the side.Â* If the pin weight is 1000 lbs that makes a moment about the point of attachment of 18 X 1000# which equals 18000 inch lbs of torque on the attachment point.

Â*

Hold your arm straight out and have the DW push up or down on your hand.Â* Now bend your elbow 90 degrees and repeat.Â* Can your shoulder tell the difference?Â* Same thing on the frame.

Â*

Iv'e been wrong before so if you don't agree you are entitled to your opinion and I wll listen to all rebutals.


The attachment point to the frame is 8 bolts between the pin box and the trailer frame mount. All are experiencing sheer stress. When the pin box is in it's normal location the bolts farthest from the king pin experience more sheer stress than the ones closest to the king pin. Rotating the pin box by 90 degrees simply changes which of the 8 bolts have the highest stress and which have the lowest stress. It does not increase the total stress on the 8 bolts. Same thing for the actual welds on the pin box mounting brackets attached to the rest of the trailer frame. The welds furthest from the king pin experience more stress than the others, but total stress is unchanged.



The arm example is not similiar to a trailer frame. The shoulder is a ball and socket, free to rotate in any direction (to a certain point). It also includes a second pivot point at the elbow. Because of this, when the elbow is bent 90 degrees, the distance from the hand to the shoulder is actually less than when the arm is straight so stress at the shoulder should be less in that case. Anyway, it is not apples to apples. A better example might be holding the arm straight out in front vs. holding the arm straight to the side. But since I know nothing about the strength of the bodies muscles or their attachment points, I don't know which position would 'feel' weaker.



Finally, even IF side stress is somehow greater, the amount of time that the rig is at 90 degrees is such a small percentage of the total towing time. And again IF side stress is greater, it would be happening under low speed conditions as compared to the increased stress on the 8 bolts and frame when towing at say 60 mph and hitting a pot hole, something that is likely to happen much more frequently. Total stress to the 8 bolts and frame is not just the static weight of the king pin, but includes the dynamic weight of bodies in motion.
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:17 AM   #12
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The OP asked for information for Sidewinder vs Superglide. I pointed out a fact.



I made no conclusion about the ability of the frame or bolts to withstand the stresses, just that the Sidewinder will put a twisting stress on the frame that the Superglide won't.



That is a fact and clearly no one has been able to disprove it. I have no dog in this fight, just trying to help the guy make an informed opinion. As has been posted here and on other RV forums, Lippert and others have experienced hitch attachment point frame failures with standard hitches. I would not "assume" that Lippert or anyone else has redesigned the frame to take the additional stress of the Sidewinder.



Another related issue is towing stability. With the pivot point moved back with the Sidewinder, your stability is closer to a bumper hitch TT than a 5th wheel. You have introduced a lever arm (length from the pivot the the pin) which will try to move the rear of the truck as the trailer moves from side to side. Because it is between the bumper hitch point and the 5th wheel hitch point, it will not be as pronounced but it is still there.



Now if you want an opinion here it is: If folks would start buying real trucks with 8 foot beds instead of the "commuters" with short beds, all this would go away.



Let's go camping!!



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Old 02-24-2011, 07:36 AM   #13
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Guess I am the exception, I have a LWB truck and the Sidewinder.
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:30 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BipeFlier
Â* As has been posted here and on other RV forums, Lippert and others have experienced hitch attachment point frame failures with standard hitches.


My point exactly, greatest stress is the combination of dynamic and static stress, looking at static stress alone is insufficient. No pin box mount ever failed due to static stress alone. Dynamic stress is the real frame killer and that doesn't occur during low speed maximum angle turns.



Â*
Quote:
Originally Posted by BipeFlier
I would not "assume" that Lippert or anyone else has redesigned the frame to take the additional stress of the Sidewinder.


But the Sidewinder doesn't put "additional stress" on the pin box mount and you can't prove it. When rotated, total static stress is still the same, if not the king pin weight would have to increase as a result of rotating the Sidewinder. All that occurs is an increase or decrease in static stress on individual bolts and welds, but total static stress on the assembly is still the same (again, king pin weight remains the same).



Quote:
Originally Posted by BipeFlier
Another related issue is towing stability.Â* With the pivot point moved back with the Sidewinder, your stability is closer to a bumper hitch TT than a 5th wheel.Â* You have introduced a lever arm (length from the pivot the the pin) which will try to move the rear of the truck as the trailer moves from side to side.Â* Because it is between the bumper hitch point and the 5th wheel hitch point, it will not be as pronounced but it is still there.


On this you are right, there could be a stability issue although none has been reported. There is another setup on the roads every day that is even more suspect for towing stability. These are mobile home transporters, very short wheelbase tractors with a ball mount located behind the rear axle pulling very long (80 ft) and heavy (40,000 lb) mobile homes at highway speeds w/o the benefit of sway control. While high winds will flip a mobile home, I've never seen or heard of a stability issue with the short lever arm on these setups either.
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Old 02-24-2011, 10:18 AM   #15
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Dayle1, I'm sorry you feel the need to defend the Sidewinder so vehemently. I did not say it put MORE stress on the frame, just that it put a twisting stress which is in a different plane than the straight ahead hitch position.



The pin weight doesn't remain the same either. The length from the center of the axles to the pin position is actually reduced when turned 90 degrees which, by a shorter lever arm, makes the weight on the pin more



Please don't read meaning into my analysis that is not present. I'm done with this.



Again, Let's just go campingEdited by: BipeFlier
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Old 02-24-2011, 11:12 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by BipeFlier
Dayle1, I'm sorry you feel the need to defend the Sidewinder so vehemently.Â* I did not say it put MORE stress on the frame, just that it put a twisting stress which is in a different plane than the straight ahead hitch position.

Â*

Please don't read meaning into my anlysis that is not present.

Â*

Again, Let's just go camping


Marvin,



It isn't the Sidewinder I'm defending, it is accurate information sharing that I am defending. Inaccurate or careless info is sometimes worse than no info. You did say "additional stress", so thanks for your clarification.



Lsrry Day
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Old 12-26-2011, 10:19 AM   #17
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I did a lot of research on this subject, and the superglide is the way to go for several reasons. The piviot point remains over the axle while in travel, so less sway like a TT.



I owned a 8 foot bed four door, it sucked. Parking places are smaller then ever. I like my 4 door short bed. I guess I have a commuter truck.
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Old 12-26-2011, 09:06 PM   #18
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I have pulled our5th wheelmany miles with the Sidewinder and there is no sway like a TT. It pulls just like a reguler hitch pin. If someone is pulling with a Sidewinder and they get sway they do not have it adjusted right.
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Old 12-26-2011, 10:48 PM   #19
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If your hitch is installed correctly, the kingpin is always over the axle. Doesn't make any difference what brand it is.



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Old 12-27-2011, 10:40 AM   #20
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" I made no conclusion about the ability of the frame or bolts to withstand the stresses, just that the Sidewinder will put a twisting stress on the frame that the Superglide won't."



I have a 15k manual slider and have been debating between the Sidewinder and Superglide.

Don't know if the above is true or not, but by choosing the Superglide, it would become a moot point.

Then again in 9 years I have never used the slider.
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