weight police

[Lloyd]

Please post all of your qualification for the title here before inserting any helpful posts.

[travelin texans]

I believe that 45-50 years towing trailers should be qualification enough!
Knowing where the pertinent numbers for trucks/RVs are posted on each individual truck/rv & pointing out how to calculate those numbers deserves the title of "weight police" then I guess I are one.
If I see someone about to walk off a cliff or step in front of a moving vehicle, I'll also point that out to them!
I'll gladly wear the badge of WEIGHT POLICE if it helps one person chose the proper equipment to enjoy the rv lifestyle safely for them & their family along with everyone else on the highway with them.
Unfortunately with the advertising from truck & rv manufacturers posting useless numbers (dry rv weights & max tow weights of trucks) & truck/rv salesman with only 1 agenda, sell you anything right or wrong, it only further confuses new rv buyers. Even the literature on both are typically extremely light in actual real rv world weights.
Please! Don't take my word for it! My only qualification is years of experience, no formal training, if that's what's expected here....
Everyone towing "1/2 ton towable" 8-9k+ lb RVs, TT & especially 5th wheels, with a 1/2 ton pickup (& some 3/4 tons), load both up ready to head out camping, firewood, bicycles, bbq grill, etc & drive it across a set scales then compare those weights with the posted weights on YOUR truck/rv, not from brochures or website numbers, & see where you're at, then post the scale numbers & YOUR truck/rv information here for all to see.

[dagst1]

I think we should all agree on is we are here to help. Us "old timers" have experiences from over the years that we should share with the newbies. NOT REPEATEDLY FORCING IT DOWN THERE THROATS.

Personally I feel that when people put down there hard earned money for a new or new to them camper. This is a BIG deal to them then to be repeatedly told that they have made a big mistake and there tow vehicle is the wrong one is VERY disappointing. We do not know there situation - maybe they have a truck and looking at the numbers it looks fine to them - Maybe a new camper and new truck would be a financial strain.

If suggestions are made PLEASE do it in a friendly manner. And try to remember we all started some where.

Personally i believe that the tow ratings of new trucks are close to real world. Take a flat bed trailer place a weight over the axles the move it forward it gives you your max tongue weight and axel weight added together you get the max trailer weight. But there are A LOT of other factors - axle ratio, spring rate, engine size, transmission just to name a few.

My current rig is in my signature and i have a scale ticket with a total weight of 17700# fully loaded for a weeks vacation. My truck has a GCWR of 18000#. Am i close yes but with over 9 years on this rig towing i have yet to have any problems.


As i stated earlier; We are to help and yes we all have different opinions but PLEASE TRY TO VOICE THEM IN A COURTIOUS AND HELPFULL MANOR.

[mark5w]

Well, I guess I'm not a official weight police. I'm not a big believer in the sticker on the truck. I think there is some lee way on those numbers.

I also believe that SOME advice is necessary.

One last thing, I don't believe that the latest half-ton trucks are the same as the older ones. Their capabilities are much more than some think. Especially when some mods are done to them.

[Lloyd]

tt
Boy, I didn’t point a finger,, or even mentioned anybody by name. WHEW!
But it does remind me of a teacher I had in grade school.
Every once in awhile somebody would pull some type of shenanigan. Like kids at that age are prone to do.
When the teacher would call everybody out on it, there was always somebody that would pipe up with---I DIDN”T DO IT, NOT ME. (LOL) Teacher would say I didn’t say you did, but if the shoe fits, wear it, other wise just kick it away.


As far as qualifications, if driving a truck or semi for a certain amount of years, or pulling an RV for some time is qualifying, then count me in also. I have driven a truck and semi and pulled and RV for 50 some years. My first license to drive semi was called a “chauffeurs license” now, they are called a CDL. So if that is what it takes to be qualified as a weight police I guess I have as much time under my belt as you do. Maybe more.
I don’t like to goaround pounding it on people over and over. If I think there might be an issue or getting close, I try to mention it then let it go. It’s my feeling people don't want to hear itover and over. Some people are perfectly capable of doing their own home work on what their TV and RV is rated for and they get defensive being told they’re wrong.

[dagst1]

Just a side thought : I remember in the 70s my dad pulling a very heavy 21 foot Fan Luxury liner with a Chevy station wagon with a 327 motor. He had a equalizer hitch but added extra springs on the rear axle. Who knew what the numbers were it just worked.

[sjk1998]

Other things to consider is how the RV and automotive industries have evolved in recent years. Some of these newer travel trailers and 5th wheels are very lightweight even if over 30ft in length. They certainly look a lot heavier than they are compared to RV’ s even 10yrs ago.
And the automotive industry has made leaps and bounds with engines putting out incredible horsepower and designing chassis and suspensions able to be more robust and more capable than years ago.
And yes experience and education count for a lot but some people just want an answer to the question they asked. If they want more information they will ask for it, they know that this forum is filled with knowledgeable members always willing to help out the experienced and newbie rv’ers alike.

[660catman]

I believe in educating people on the vehicles sticker numbers as a lot of people don’t know what they mean. As far as tow ratings provided by the TV manufacturers, they are misleading, more so in the 1500’s. My truck has a rating of 9500 lbs. GCVWR is 15k lbs. take the trucks GVW of 7k lbs off and I can tow 8k lbs. It’s nothing to add 800 lbs of gear in the truck to bring you close to a TV max weight. We all say 1500’s run out of payload quickly, and they do. I have also mentioned weighing your truck gives you more accurate numbers. Adding accessories adds weight to your truck reducing the actual payload numbers. With my setup I’m running about 1400 lbs less than max combined. Flatland towing is fine but I would certainly change rigs if I lived in hilly terrain. In fact I’m shopping for a 2500 and a 5th wheel combo fully capable of hauling a boat too.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by 660catman

I believe in educating people on the vehicles sticker numbers as a lot of people don’t know what they mean. As far as tow ratings provided by the TV manufacturers, they are misleading, more so in the 1500’s. My truck has a rating of 9500 lbs. GCVWR is 15k lbs. take the trucks GVW of 7k lbs off and I can tow 8k lbs. It’s nothing to add 800 lbs of gear in the truck to bring you close to a TV max weight. We all say 1500’s run out of payload quickly, and they do. I have also mentioned weighing your truck gives you more accurate numbers. Adding accessories adds weight to your truck reducing the actual payload numbers. With my setup I’m running about 1400 lbs less than max combined. Flatland towing is fine but I would certainly change rigs if I lived in hilly terrain. In fact I’m shopping for a 2500 and a 5th wheel combo fully capable of hauling a boat too.

Catman,
If you're looking at 5th wheels & wanting to tow a boat behind I'd recommend skip the 3/4 ton & go with a 1 ton for the substantial increase in payload for very little more $$, same ride, same mileage. Depending on how the particular 3/4 ton is equipped some have very little more payload than some of the 1/2 tons.
Advice from a self proclaimed WEIGHT POLICE!

[660catman]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Catman,
If you're looking at 5th wheels & wanting to tow a boat behind I'd recommend skip the 3/4 ton & go with a 1 ton for the substantial increase in payload for very little more $$, same ride, same mileage. Depending on how the particular 3/4 ton is equipped some have very little more payload than some of the 1/2 tons.
Advice from a self proclaimed WEIGHT POLICE!

I’ve been looking at fifth’s around 29’ total length with GVW’s under 10k and pin weights around 12-1400 lbs. Small enough to be marketed as half ton towable but I know they’re not. One is a KZ D250RES and another is a Rockwood 2445WS. A 3500 SRW is an option but not easy to find used. It seems like for every one hundred 1500’s out there, there’s fifteen 2500’s and one 3500. All the good trucks are heading south to the USA for better profit. I know, my wife works for a used car dealer that ships a lot south.

[Lloyd]

Originally Posted by 660catman

I’ve been looking at fifth’s around 29’ total length with GVW’s under 10k and pin weights around 12-1400 lbs. Small enough to be marketed as half ton towable but I know they’re not. One is a KZ D250RES and another is a Rockwood 2445WS. A 3500 SRW is an option but not easy to find used. It seems like for every one hundred 1500’s out there, there’s fifteen 2500’s and one 3500. All the good trucks are heading south to the USA for better profit. I know, my wife works for a used car dealer that ships a lot south.

That unit is very much 1/2 ton towable. Mine has the capabilities to handle it just fine.

[660catman]

Originally Posted by Lloyd

That unit is very much 1/2 ton towable. Mine has the capabilities to handle it just fine.

I’m sure there is a half ton capable out there but not in the GMT 900 platform used for 07-13 GM 1500 trucks. Highest GCVWR is 16k lbs. I’ve never heard of any payload higher than 1600 lbs in these trucks which that number is not in the owners manual as it’s truck specific. Mines only 1531 and being a 1500 crew the box is way too short at 5’8”. My buddy’s Ram 1500 is just over 1150 something. Good old coil springs lol.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by 660catman

I’m sure there is a half ton capable out there but not in the GMT 900 platform used for 07-13 GM 1500 trucks. Highest GCVWR is 16k lbs. I’ve never heard of any payload higher than 1600 lbs in these trucks which that number is not in the owners manual as it’s truck specific. Mines only 1531 and being a 1500 crew the box is way too short at 5’8”. My buddy’s Ram 1500 is just over 1150 something. Good old coil springs lol.

From reading other forums & talking to owners I believe the newer GM 1/2 tons have increased the payloads substantially, but the older used ones are as you state 1500-1600 lbs.
Also reading that the HDPP F150s are/were not typically found on dealers lots, most were/are special order, so finding one of those used may be as difficult as finding a used 1 ton.
Someone earlier posted that the truck manufacturers have come a long way in the past few years & I totally agree, but our society has also become a law suit crazy money grubbing bunch of individuals during that same time, watch tv & see how many lawyers advertise & how many ongoing civil lawsuits you see every evening. With that said if, God forbid, you're in an accident, even worse if someone is hurt, the 1st thing the LEO, the other person's insurance investigator, & a lawyer will be looking at are the weights posted on your trucks door jamb & the front corner of your rv. They don't care about dry weights, what you read that your truck is rated to tow or how many upgrades you've done to that truck so it tows better, posted weights & only posted weights will be valid.

[divey]

The debate around continually posting repetitive advice/information on a certain topic is an interesting one. Personally, I think both sides are correct.

For many years, my largest RV was a tent trailer and I’d towed utility and boat trailers. When we decided to go big with a 5th wheel and decent truck to pull it, I soon realized that I didn’t know Jack about weight limitations. Fortunately for me, my truck and engine choice more that met the requirements of my trailer so there was no regret.

Having said that and before we bought the truck and trailer, I had a new SUV that advertised a towing capacity of 5000 lbs. We were looking at getting back into an RV at that stage and actually bought the SUV thinking that we could buy a reasonable sized trailer to meet our camping needs, yet have a vehicle suitable enough to tow it around. I’m glad I didn’t go down that road. SUV’s aren’t meant for travel trailers in my view.

I think what’s important here is that many people who are diving into the RV market for the first time, myself included, simply may not realize what has been said on this forum many times over – “the sales person will tell you anything in order to make the sale.” I know, caveat emptor (buyer beware) but the reality is, not everyone joins a useful forum like this one for advice BEFORE they buy their rig. I won’t paint all RV sales people with the same brush but it does seem to be a familiar message.

The information and advice I’ve gleaned on this forum has been invaluable (plug for the admin and moderators) and without forum members continually expressing their views/opinions on topics whether it be electronics, slides, towing capabilities, etc. etc., then I would have been no smarter than when I was when I first started shopping for a rig.

For some RV long haulers, it may seem like a broken record when someone keeps going on and on about a topic but for newbies, it ideally will give them sufficient information to either make the right decision in the first place or at least, provide them with food for thought as to whether they’ve purchased the right combination or not. I definitely wouldn’t consider that as forcing it down their throats. I would consider that as providing them with sufficient information for them to make their own decision. Hopefully, safety first would be the deciding factor.

I belong to other forums and this one has to be the best when it comes to respective dialogue, opinions, advice and comments; all while staying on the topic of RV’ing and RV’ing only. My hat’s off to all contributors and administrators.

[660catman]

One other thing is diff ratios change tow capacity and a lot of people don’t know how to check what they have. It’s a simple RPO check but some people still don’t know what that is. I know the GM’s but the others, not a clue.

[mark5w]

I had to special order my F150 to include the heavy payload package. That gave me around 2350 lbs of payload. 3.73 rear.

I added the Roadmaster Suspension to help take a load off the springs and stabilize side to side pitching and shocks (heavy duty Rancho shocks) plus I also installed heavy duty rotors and metallic brake pads. Just installed a 4" exhaust system with low back-pressure muffler.

Been up and down the east coast and up and over the Smokies a few times and never had a problem. I live on top of a mountain that is part of the Appalachian mt. range and from the valley to the top is about `1 1/2 mile climb and decent. No problems there either.

[660catman]

Originally Posted by mark5w

I had to special order my F150 to include the heavy payload package. That gave me around 2350 lbs of payload. 3.73 rear.

I added the Roadmaster Suspension to help take a load off the springs and stabilize side to side pitching and shocks (heavy duty Rancho shocks) plus I also installed heavy duty rotors and metallic brake pads. Just installed a 4" exhaust system with low back-pressure muffler.

Been up and down the east coast and up and over the Smokies a few times and never had a problem. I live on top of a mountain that is part of the Appalachian mt. range and from the valley to the top is about `1 1/2 mile climb and decent. No problems there either.

Those are the high payload numbers I’ve heard with the F150’s. It’s funny that the 3:73’s in the GM’s are not the best and guys recommend the 4:10’s especially with the 6.0 L

[Lloyd]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

From reading other forums & talking to owners I believe the newer GM 1/2 tons have increased the payloads substantially, but the older used ones are as you state 1500-1600 lbs.
Also reading that the HDPP F150s are/were not typically found on dealers lots, most were/are special order, so finding one of those used may be as difficult as finding a used 1 ton.
Someone earlier posted that the truck manufacturers have come a long way in the past few years & I totally agree, but our society has also become a law suit crazy money grubbing bunch of individuals during that same time, watch tv & see how many lawyers advertise & how many ongoing civil lawsuits you see every evening. With that said if, God forbid, you're in an accident, even worse if someone is hurt, the 1st thing the LEO, the other person's insurance investigator, & a lawyer will be looking at are the weights posted on your trucks door jamb & the front corner of your rv. They don't care about dry weights, what you read that your truck is rated to tow or how many upgrades you've done to that truck so it tows better, posted weights & only posted weights will be valid.

I'm glad to see that you have apparently did a little research, and reading up on the F150's that some of us have been talking about. They definitely are a special breed of their own. Makes me happy knowing you won't be shooting yourself in the foot any more. At least not on the F150's.

[Lloyd]

This has turned into a pretty good thread.Lots of different points of view and different ways other people look at a situation.

Keep up the good work guys.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by Lloyd

I'm glad to see that you have apparently did a little research, and reading up on the F150's that some of us have been talking about. They definitely are a special breed of their own. Makes me happy knowing you won't be shooting yourself in the foot any more. At least not on the F150's.

Then you should be extremely happy to know I drove Ford pickups, 1/2, 3,4 & 1 tons, for over 30 years at work!
Which is why I bought GMs....