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Old 07-19-2011, 02:11 AM   #1
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Our 5er is 30 AMP and then next campground we're going to only has 50 AMP available. I have a 50 to 30 adapter and wondering if there is any problem using the adapter?
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Old 07-19-2011, 02:17 AM   #2
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I think you would be alright with that hook up. You might have a problem if it was the other way around maybe (30 to 50).
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Old 07-19-2011, 02:46 AM   #3
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You will be perfectly ok. Your campers power panel will only allow you to pull its max rated current (30/50 amps as designed). This is like wondering if hooking up to the electric utility's mega watt power will damage your unit.

The size of the source is irrelavent....if it is the correct voltage and frequency your camper will pull what it needs up to it design limit. At that point your inside breakers will do their job and protect your wiring from overcurrent damage as it normally does. BTW, that is what breakers do.....protects your wiring.

Making sure you have ample voltage is much more important. I recommend you have a method of verifying the voltage and polarity (and ground) of any power source you use. IMHO an EMS is essential, but at the least use a volt meter before you hook up to unknown power.
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Old 07-19-2011, 03:00 AM   #4
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If they are designed for campers either one should work. A 50 amp cord/trailer connected to a 50 amp source simply uses both sides of a 240 volt source and divides it into 2 120's, the same way your house does. 30 amp only uses one side of the 240 volt source if it is plugged into a 50 amps. A proper 50/30 adapter takes one side of the source (120V) and applies it to the 30 amp cord. A proper 30/50 adapter takes the only source available to it (120V) and applies it to both sides of the 50 amp cord from the trailer. The difference being less amperage available AND, if the trailer had an appliance that needed 240 volts, such as an electric range or some electric dryers, they wouldn't work. That part shouldn't be a problem for us as I know of no Crossroads products that have a 240V appliance. The only advantage to having 50 amps is that you can run more toys!
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Old 07-19-2011, 06:53 AM   #5
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Once you get there, you will probably find they have both, but if they dont, the adapter will be fine...
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Old 07-19-2011, 08:49 AM   #6
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Almost all the places I have visited have adapters if you need one they will have one you can use,



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Old 07-19-2011, 10:40 AM   #7
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Having the adapter is half the battle.....mis-placed mine one year, had to buy another one, now I have two. I use the adapter probably once per year mostly when we travel and don't always have a choice of sites.....you should be fine....



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Old 07-20-2011, 09:45 PM   #8
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Thanks for all the replies. I'll find out tonight as we'll be camping where they only have 50 AMPs. http://www.runnerduckreview.wordpress.com
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:16 PM   #9
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WOW so many f the replies here are so far off base tht they would be considered to be WRONG.

A 30 Amp service versus a 50 Amp service is the total ampere load that can be supplied to the unit.

The voltage NEVER changes it is always rated at 120 volts, any one that says that in one case they are supplying 120 volts and in the next case they are supplying 240 volts is so wrong. How would the supplier guarantee that in one case hot line "A" is used and in the next case Hot line "B" is used?

The amount of current available (30/50) is determined by the service (size of transformer) and wires used to connect to the point of connection for the trailer.

The power supplied will solely be dictated by the amount of requirement by the trailer. However if you are connected to a 30 Amp service and tried to run your AC it will simply trip a breaker in the campground, in lots of cases a campground is only supplying 30 Amps even though the recpticiale is a 50 AMP.

A micro-wave will consume approximately 12 Amps alone. Which means that a few lamps can also be used at the same time if connected to a 30 Amp services, if you try running a tea kettle (12 Amps) at the same time, a breaker in the campground may trip, as it would be very close to the total of 30 Amps. if you try running the micro-wave + AC on a 30 Amp service the breaker will definitely trip, an AC probably draws over 20 amps by it self when running, however when it starts it probably draws closer to 40-45 Amps.

I understand that electricity is a very confusing topic however the correct info is more important than half the correct info.

Lastly the correct voltage is critical but having "Lay-people" running around with volt-meters trying to determine what is wrong and what is right is simply asking for someone to get seriously hurt.

If you are concerned about connection points there are 120 volt testers that can plug into a standard recpticle which will indicate if the connections from the main electrical panel are right, but these do not indicate voltage levels, there are simple voltmeters which again plug into a standard receptical which will give a rough idea of whether the supply voltage is correct.

My 2 cents
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Old 07-22-2011, 12:31 AM   #10
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The voltage NEVER changes it is always rated at 120 volts, any one that says that in one case they are supplying 120 volts and in the next case they are supplying 240 volts is so wrong. How would the supplier guarantee that in one case hot line "A" is used and in the next case Hot line "B" is used?

30 amp service is a single phase of 120V applied to each side of the breaker box. 50 amp service is both phases of 120V applied to the breaker box. If you measure across the phases of 120 with a voltmeter you will see 240. Think of two sine waves superimposed on each other but going in opposite directions at any given point in time. If one is 120V, then combination of the two is 240V. We never see it in our units because we don't have any 240V appliances, but it is there. As for "hot line "A" and hot line "B"...it is called "standardized wiring."

The amount of current available (30/50) is determined by the service (size of transformer) and wires used to connect to the point of connection for the trailer.

This is true for the most part. A campground could wire any amperage service to any style plug 15A, 30A, 50A that they choose. You would only get the amperage of the supply regardless of the style of the outlet. Since our trailers only need 120V service on either side of the breaker they could wire the same phase of 120V to both sides of the 50A outlet and our trailers wouldn't know the difference except for the reduced amperage, in fact that is exactly what happens when you adapt a 50A outlet to a 30A trailer. The adapter takes one side of the 50A service and applies it to both sides of the 30A cord. When you do this you end up with 25 amp service, not 50 amp.

The power supplied will solely be dictated by the amount of requirement by the trailer. However if you are connected to a 30 Amp service and tried to run your AC it will simply trip a breaker in the campground, in lots of cases a campground is only supplying 30 Amps even though the recpticiale is a 50 AMP.

I'm not sure if this is a typo or not, but I run my AC on 30 amp service all the time in addition to other items. 30 amps at 120V is 3600 watts which is more that enough for most trailers assuming that you don't go crazy and run everything at the same time.

Lastly the correct voltage is critical but having "Lay-people" running around with volt-meters trying to determine what is wrong and what is right is simply asking for someone to get seriously hurt.

I didn't suggest that they run around with a voltmeter. I suggested a simple meter that plugs into a "standard outlet" and monitors voltage in a digital format. It even provides an outlet to replace the one it covers up. If you plug an appliance into that outlet you can then find out how much amperage and wattage it uses. You can also check the frequency (should be 60 Hz) and the kilowatt hours used for that appliance.
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Old 07-22-2011, 12:44 AM   #11
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When we moved from a 30 amp towable to the 50 amp 5th wheel, I decided

to put in a pedestal at our camper pad so I could keep it plugged in. In

the process of doing the necessary research, I came across a fair bit

of information that might prove useful to someone else.





RV Wiring Diagrams http://www.dasplace.net/RVWiring/wiring.html
RV Elecric, Connections, and basic information http://www.myrv.us/electric/
Basic RV information http://www.timberman.com/ELECTRIC/electric.htm

30 amp outlet tester http://www.myrv.us/electric/Pg/tester_30amp.htm
50 amp outlet tester http://www.myrv.us/electric/Pg/tester_50amp.htm

RV.net pedestal and power discussion http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/23940508/gotomsg/23940549.cfm

I'm not an electrician nor do I play one in real life. If you are going to wire in a pedestal, make sure you get either a qualified electrician (qualified means they have a clue about RV power, are licensed, and bonded) or as one person suggested over on the RV.net forum, put in 50 amp and then get a pigtail. The problem is that to most electricians, if you hand them a 30 amp RV outlet, it may well get wired like a dryer plug, not the best thing for your camper.

If you plan on doing any kind of wiring yourself, do the proper research beforehand, and if you do not feel confident or comfortable, get an electrician to look over your work before you energize the circuit, or get an electrician to do the work.

I'm planning on making the power plug testers this winter so I'll have them to do the basic check when we connect. The other thing that I'll be doing this winter is adding either a hardwired surge suppressor or a portable one to the kit.

Hope the web links help someone like they did me. I've done some electrical work over the years but like I said above, that wasn't what I did for real. When I got into something I didn't feel comfortable with or understand, I did get a licensed, bonded electrician to do the work.

Never assume that a circuit is dead without testing it beforehand. A no contact tester (available from most big box stores, electrical supply houses, etc.) is a good add to your tool kit. It will tell you if voltage is present. The only way to tell for sure how much is to have a meter. As was pointed out very appropriately, that is a good place to get hurt if you do no exercise appropriate care.









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Old 07-22-2011, 03:50 AM   #12
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RV Elecric, Connections, and basic information http://www.myrv.us/electric/


Since it is difficult to have a debate on a forum, I thought that I would put this puppy to rest once and for all. Below is a quote from the link above that was originally provided by WoodCarvingGypsy:

50 Amp - the common four

pin configuration used for larger RV's. The receptacles are ANSI/NEMA

14-50R and the plugs are ANSI/NEMA 14-50P. The half round pin is ground,

the blade directly across from it is Neutral, and the other two blades

each have 120 Volts. If wired per the National Electrical Code, the two

120 Volt feeds are of opposite phases so that you get 240 Volts when you

read across them and 120 Volts between each of them and neutral or ground.

Each of the two power sockets can be wired to a 50 Amp breaker - for

240Volts, the two breakers are "ganged" (the handles are

connected together) or are of a special design with only a single handle.

However, some campgrounds may only have 30 or 40 Amp breakers on the power

feeds to these receptacles.


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Old 07-22-2011, 05:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egrum
WOW so many f the replies here are so far off base tht they would be considered to be WRONG.

I understand that electricity is a very confusing topic however the correct info is more important than half the correct info.
I'm sorry, but the only confused post I have seen so far is yours. Most of what you stated is not correct. Electrical panel boxes at the campgrounds are usually supplied with 240v service, with at least 200 amps or more, depending how many panel boxes are daisy-chained in a run. This feed is 240v, which consists of two(2) 120v hot wires, a neutral & a ground.

At each box, theres is usually a 20 amp breaker/outlet, a 30 amp breaker/outlet & a 50 amp breaker/outlet. The output current(ampreage) is determined by the breaker in the box, not from the transformer feeding it. The 20 amp & 30 amp breakers are simply pulling power from only one(1) of the 120v hot wires, the neutral & ground. The 50 amp is pulling from both 120v hot wires, the neutral & ground. Again, its the breaker that limits the amount of amps that can be supplied to the RV. If you try to pull over 30 amps thru a 30 amp breaker, it will trip. This the same as the electrical service & panel box in your house.

A 50 amp service to an RV is feeding two(2) 120v feeds(240v) to the RV panel box, where the 120v circuits are split between each feed. If your RV has 2 a/c's, each one is on a separate feed in the panel box.

A 50amp to 30 amp pigtail simply pulls from one side(120v) of a 50amp plug(240v).

A 15,000btu a/c only pulls about 16amps running & just over 20 on start up, not 40-45. If 40-45amps was the case, no one could run an a/c with just a 30amp service to there RV. You are right about running the a/c with a microwave or even a hair dryer, it will usually trip the 30amp breaker.

Hope this clears up any confusion.
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:39 AM   #14
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I have to agree with Maksurveyor your thinking is off Egrum.
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:49 AM   #15
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Year before last I helped do some wiring in campground electrical posts and I can tell you that the way Maxsurveyor describes the electrical distribution is exactly the way we wired the posts.
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Old 07-22-2011, 08:17 AM   #16
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One more note to remember about breaker amperage is that they will trip at 80% of rated amps under a contsant load. A 30 amp breaker will trip at 24 amps for example and a 20 amp will trip about 16 amps.
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Old 07-22-2011, 08:55 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl
One more note to remember about breaker amperage is that they will trip at 80% of rated amps under a contsant load. A 30 amp breaker will trip at 24 amps for example and a 20 amp will trip about 16 amps.

I have seen this quote a number of times. I challenge anyone to provide a reputable source that will verify this. As I understand it, the point a breaker trips is the rated current +/- mfg tolerence if it is passing just abovethe rated current. How fast it trips is inversely proportional to the overcurrent.....I'm just saying. The only time I know of that the NEC talks of an 80% factor relative to circuit breakers is to say that when planning circuits, figure a 80% load factor. Granted I havent seen a current NEC but suspect it hasnt changed much since the one I have was published.

Edited by: GaPete
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Old 07-22-2011, 10:47 AM   #18
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A comment about my original post:
When we got camp set up it was almost 100 degrees. The site ended up having 30 AMP and 50 AMP available. We plugged into the 30 AMP and turned on the air conditioner along with the hot water heater, refrigerator and TV. Shortly after that the breaker blew. We've run all of this on 30 AMP's before with no problem. I broke out the 50 to 30 AMP adapter and plugged it in. We've been running everything for two days now in 100+ temperatures and no problems. Long live 50 AMPs
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Old 07-22-2011, 02:07 PM   #19
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You will not find the trip amperage in the NEC but that is one of the reasons one designs a circuit at 80%. You need to check the manufacture's specs where you will find the 80% trip info. With a pure resistive circuit, it may hold at higher percentage but rarely with inductive load. Ambient temperature also must be factored in. I can attest to all this after more than 40 years as electrical contractor.
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Old 07-22-2011, 02:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl
You will not find the trip amperage in the NEC but that is one of the reasons one designs a circuit at 80%. You need to check the manufacture's specs where you will find the 80% trip info. With a pure resistive circuit, it may hold at higher percentage but rarely with inductive load. Ambient temperature also must be factored in. I can attest to all this after more than 40 years as electrical contractor.
Dont believe the NEC was quoted as source for trip amperage. The NEC was referenced for load computation. As you said, you should check the mfg spec's. By chance did you do so? Still looking for the source not just another opinion.
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