New Warranty - Boo, Hiss

[dalemac377]

For Tom Montague: I will give you two examples of problems that go beyond the 12 month warranty and why people are concerned. First on our '07 cf30sk: when the unit was three years old a roof truss collapsed. I sent photos to the Crossroads repair facility, made an appointment for repairs, repairs were completed under the five year structural warranty. Second on our'10 cf30skp: when unit was three months ol kitchen slide started stalling occasionally (would start and stop in either direction). Dealer, Crossroads, and Lippert determined that the slide motor was bad and replaced it. The following year we were still having occasional problems, finally took it back to dealer and all parties determined that the problem was actually the actuator. It was binding in several spots and stalling the motor. They replaced the complete motor actuator assembly and so far no further problems. By they time they did this the trailer was beyond the 12 month point, but the two year warranty covered it. With a one year warranty it would have probably cost me well over a thousand dollars for this repair which was a problem from day one but took along time to show up and be resolved. This I believe is the issue with many folks, that some issues take a long time to show up. That is why many other quality manufacturers have now gone to two year warranties and not the other way. By the way i do own one of those cars that has the ten year warranty and I know many others that also have them. With the cost of repairs today, the length of warranty is very important to many people.

[Livewire]

Also for Tom,Living in Ontario Canada by simple geographics mean I would probably never use the Crossroads Direct 6 month check.This would be true for many of the states also.My closet service-dealer is 1.5 hours away.We must be one of the lucky ones so far with almost 2 years use and very minor problems which I have looked after myself.Keep listening to your clients.

[DirtEngineer]

I too am confused. I bought a 2012 ST, in 2011. Is my 2 year warranty still valid.



Tom - I hate to disagree with you, but to many Crossroads consumers don't fit a 1-year warranty model. For example, in Alberta, we only get 2-3 months of 'camping season'. I only used my RV for mayne 10 weekends last year. That's not enough time to understand what potential issues might come out of the RV. Unless CR is only comfortable warranty-ing extremely short-use periods. Which, then I would interpret, CR is not standing behind the quality of their RVs.



2 year warranty was a major consideration for me. If this continues, my next RV will NOT be a CR product.

[Hunter11]

Tom, I will say that is some very nice information you have provided about the
12 Point Promise but when you strip away all the marketing fluff you still have
a one year warranty on the unit. Your promise is putting all of your faith in your
dealers ability to take care of their customers and from the post I have seen on this
forum lately most of the warranty issues are not being taken care of by your dealers
and owners are getting the run around. Regardless of what your marketing people might
be telling you Crossroads has quality issues and dealers are not taking care of your customers.




As to you referring to smoke and mirrors, where is the smoke and mirrors
of the 2 year warranty? Most owners bought their units from Crossroads did so because of
the 2 year warranty. I think the smoke and mirrors is the 12 Point Promise as a way to cut
cost because of crappy construction and materials and warranty cost associated with it.



You are going to give the customers a "fix it kit" with their purchase. Is that so they can
fix the problems that should have been fixed before it left your factory? That would be like
buying a new house and the contractor handing you some concrete, 2X4's and shingles and saying good luck! Also on day 366 who do you call? My opinion is your quality has taken a serious nose dive and to pay for the rising warranty cost you have cut the warranty in half to help cover the cost. JMHO



A question Tom, are the Cruisers still being built on 16" centers?

[tmontague]

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Edited by: tmontague

[Hunter11]

Anaro, although I agree with your post below I think your numbers are low.In today's internet age an unhappy camper will tell hundreds if not thousands of potential new customers with a negative post on just a couple of the well used RV web sites.















"As stokesj pointed out, happy people will tell a few people to buy a product, unhappy campers tend to tell at least 7-10 people how bad it is. Crossroads needs to realize this and get it together."

[dalemac377]

Tom, if you are that confident on the quality of the product, then the smart thing to do would have been to keep the two year warranty and add the 12 point Promise. This would have been taken as a real step up in Crossroads belief in their quality and the good will of their customers. By the way, what happened to the five structural warranty? Apparently it just went quietly bye-bye. Sadly, the five year structural warranty required owners to have an annual inspection, at the owners expense, to verify that the unit was being taken care of. This was a good benefit for both Crossroads and the owners. Apparently now after one year thats it, bye-bye.

[DirtEngineer]

Tom - no offence here, but the 12-point promise is something completely independent of warranty. I don't think Crossroads should be trying to say one is a tradeoff for another. And to answer you're question about the microwave example - I'm not concerned about such a scenario. Where my warranty is important to me is key pieces of the overall unit failing. Structural problems, leaks, overall electronic issues, RV components such as slide-outs, frames, axles, etc. If my microwave blows up, I have no issue with the dealer contacting the manufacturer - for such a scenario I would be evaluating my dealer's responsiveness, not CR.



As long as CR has a 1 year warranty, I won't be buying another one. Too much other competition that is being more competitive.

[Pnr]

Cut it in half hype it and fluff it ! Sounds like a real plan for crossroads to get out of half the sorry quality warranty claims.

A warranty claim can easily turn into a month or more. A Couple of 30-60 days sitting at the dealer Plus a few months of winter and you are outta warranty.

I guarantee the bean counters dreamed this wonderful cost cutting measure up. Instead of tightening up quality and workmanship lets just screw the customer!



Oh well after the BAD experiences with my unit, I don't think I would buy another crossroads even ,with a FOUR year warranty!

This is HALF warranty time where are the cheerleaders ???

Paul

[tmontague]

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Edited by: tmontague

[Pnr]

How dare you question the plan Hunter !

I mean we morons ,that buy their cheap junk outta be happy they are NOT gonna stand behind it for two years.

Tom u are an ARROGANT JERK !

Go ahead and kick me off if u want , I've bout had enough anyway.

Paul

Originally Posted by tmontague

Hunter11 - Its apparent there is nothing I can say that you can't somehow turn into a negative. So this will be my last post for a while. Unfortunate for the many users who would have liked the direct access to someone at CrossRoads with the power to take customer suggestions and turn them into reality.

I jumped on this forum to provide the FACTS and to give our owners some piece of mind that CrossRoads will stand behind the product we are providing.

An to answer your question - yes the Cruiser is still built with aluminum studs 16" on center.

To Clarify - its not a " FIX IT " kit. Its an Owners Kit so you can perform general maintenance to protect your investment. General or Routine maintenance is the owners responsibility and we are trying to make it easier to do. Thanks for putting a negative spin on that as well....

Have a nice day.

Tom Montague
GM CrossRoads & Redwood RV

[socoguy]

Tom. Many good points have been made here. Most important is time frame. Most of us cannot put in enough use in a 1 year period to fairly challenge the products quality. I think there is some validity to concerns that Crossroads is aware of quality issues and that is motivation for the new "12 point"
You "inherdited" the 2 year warranty you also inherdited a mostly loyal fowolling of repeat Crossroads owners. The reaction to new warranty is what would keep me working 24 hours. To correct what appears to be a negative decision.

[dalemac377]

Tom, those of us that still have the two year warranty and the five year structural warranty, are we still required to have the annual inspection to maintain the five year structural warranty? If the five year structural is void I don't want to pay my dealer in two weeks to do the inspection and forward Crossroads a copy. Please advise.

[Hunter11]

Tom, I have never been one to beat around the bush and I call them as I see them. It is obvious that many other owners feel the same asI do just from the responses on this one post. I was the first person on this forum almost 8 years ago now and even though our Paradise Pointe turned out to be a turd I have always promoted Crossroads on other forums and on the road. I have had rallies in Texas for Crossroads since 2006 and the last two years the attendance has been within 5 units of the factory rally. I guess someone like me that has supported Crossroads over the years and tried to give help on this forum feels "negative" about a company that appears to be ignoring their customers over profits. You say this is your last post on the forum for a while and that is your choice but I would suggest you still get on here and listen to what your customers are saying. Just count up how many of us multible Crossroads owners have posted that they would not buy another. Thank you for your time.

[papa2]

I'll respond another time if time warrants. However I did want to say this...



Thank you for taking the time to respond on the forum Mr Montague. I take your effort as a serious response to our concerns. It is a rare day upper management delves into the morass of forums, or customer service. I for one am both impressed and grateful that you truly care enough to "meet" with us here.



That being said, it is painfully obvious that you feel the 12 point plan is an answer to much of what ails CR's current customer service issues. Perhaps it will help. Obvous alot of time and thought went into it. Your problem here is it is NOT perceived as a customer friendly upgrade. In other words, you and your staff have either failed to communicate the value in a way we understand or the value is not what you thought it was.



With those of us who have owned your products for a few years, we were indeed quite fortunate. The units were well built with a low problem rate. When there was a problem the management at that time chose to respond quickly and fairly ... some would say they were too fair. It's obvious that this has changed over time. There is both a higher problem rate and response time has degraded. I can see the 12 point plan is an effort to address the response time. That is both needed and desirable. It does not address the quality issue, nor can it.



Most of us with the 2 year warranty needed to use it for something during the second year. If it is not clear to you that the 2nd year is important to us, let me be clear. WE (the consumer) want the second year of warrantly. I have no issue if you charge a nominal fee for it, but it should be available.



I can see by your actions (meeting with us here) that you are trying to communicate your efforts to us. I hope you hear us and perhaps even modify some opinions and/or beliefs that you hold about your efforts and how they affect us.



I need to get back to work. But I hope both that you hear what we're saying and that others here realize what a truly unique opportunity this is for us.

[wincrasher]

Boo hoo, the GM doesn't like that we didn't eat his bullsh*t.

So if they've made this radical improvement service, then why did it take 5 weeks for my dealer to get a new table for my RV in July/August of this year? Not a special order part. Something you are still using on the production line.

So don't drink the cool-aid folks.

[DirtEngineer]

Wow. Unbelievable response from senior management at CR. I must say, that I am a bit surprised.



I don't think anyone here was personally targeting Tom, but merely voicing our displeasure with the new warranty provision from CR. I am very disappointed - one of the things I researched before buying my RV was manufacturer support, and everything I had read said CR had a very good after-sales support group. This is not at all what I was expecting.



I am pretty unimpressed by all of this.

[Hunter11]

Adam, I certainly was not targeting Tom with my post that seemed to strike a nerve with him only stating what appears to be taking place within the company. They have tried to make so many changes within a short period of time and things seem to be getting worse instead of better. My earlier statement was my opinion of what I preceiveis going on at Crossroads. I have seen several post on here about folks having problems getting warranty issues taken care of properly by dealers so if they can't handle those issues how will they make the Promise work.

I guess if you still want the 2+5 warranty you have to step up to a Redwood since they still have it.

[mwebber78]

Tom,

The CR Forum values your responses earlier but your second response was not representative of the CR that formed an allegiance of loyal customers. Lets hope it was when you were lacking sleep or at a bad moment in your day....

Hunter and others have been huge advocates of the product. Sorry, but CR has to step up and accept that with all the good and loyal cheer leading we've done for you we deserve to be blunt and honest. I operate a manufacturing area that sells to customers on nearly every continent. When a customer says we screwed up, we promise at the very least to review our process - then we thank them for being honest and ask them to stay our customer.

I believe your system is innovative but misguided. Did any former our current customer say, "hey we are fine with a one year warranty as long as you do a six month checkup on the house." I sincerely doubt it, nor I have I ever seen in my lifetime of camping and 7 years of online forums hear a potential customer ask "who has the shortest warranty and excludes the most from that warranty." Customers want value and your previous second year warranty delivered value to the customer.

As a former owner and cheerleader for CR I can't help but think of the multiple times owners (and I) benefit from a second year warranty on the coach. Lets face facts, the number of blatant warranty issues on this forum and others seems to be increasing, yet CR believes shortening coverage and offering a free checkup is going to increase customer satisfaction? How could anyone NOT think, on the surface, that this is to reduce your warranty liabilities?

I can't, in good faith, recommend your product anymore with a one year warranty, the value is gone and to be frank other products from competitors seem to be having less issues and still offering standard or optional second year coverage. Heck, even the evil galactic empire of Forest River offers it as a low cost option!

My suggestion is to swallow some pride, review the last several pages, survey your current owners, and offer an optional second year for a few hundred dollars. Most owners and former owners would consider that a good compromise.

Take my advice for what it's worth - heck what do I know I only manage a $20 million dollar a year manufacturing area.

Best regards,

Michael.

[Monty]

Tom, I have to agree with Al (papa2) and say I appreciate

you taking the time to address the questions here. I can only hope that the feedback that is

being provided is taken into consideration as management continues to adapt

their support of this product.



I do see some valid benefits in this 12 point plan. I

believe it was stated that if your Delco stereo had issues, you would expect to
; back to GM to have it repaired and not have to contact Delco. I get that and can appreciate it. One point of contact. And having the needed parts on hand to get you

back on the road quickly seems to be a gap that is mentioned in a lot of these

posts. So addressing that gap will definitely

enhance the customer experience when something goes wrong.



But with most products, there is always a desire to cut the

cost associated with it (after all this is a business and you do have to make a

profit). And in this case, the cost

cutting seems to be the warranty. I don’t have all of the data you mention as

far as maintenance records on the various models, but it seems like giving

buyers an option to stay with a 1 year warranty and/or purchase an additional year

would seem reasonable. Maybe that data won’t justify the cost, but there has to

be a happy balance in there somewhere.

Car dealers offer that every day, along with the other add-ons

(undercoating, Scotchguard, etc.). There are a variety of buyers out there and

they all want something different. Why

not add that to the list of options available? Don’t get me wrong, I would

rather have the 2 year warranty included. But if it is down to 1 year and the

12 Point Promise, or purchase the second

year warranty and forego the 12 Point Promise, I would have to take the 2^nd

year warranty, even at a cost.



In most lines of business, the earlier that you can address

the problem in the build process, the less it will cost you (typically) to fix

it. So, with all of the repair data,

what has been done in the construction process to correct these problems? I can’t tell you how many posts (on here and

other forums) joke about their trailer being built on a Friday/Monday, but if

quality is truly a goal at Crossroads (and I do believe that it is), then what

is being done to address that aspect of the process? Would you be willing/able to share any of that

repair history information? Statistically, how do the product lines stand up

over time? I am sure that is something as a management team you review frequently.

What can be gleaned from that data that supports the quality commitment of

Crossroads. And just as importantly,

what is being done to address re-occurring issues?



I am still a Crossroads fan, mainly because the camper I

have seems to be holding up well and I have had the support to maintain it

(although there was minimal needed). But I can also see how this change has

given some followers a sour taste.

Reminds me of New Coke. Some might like the new flavor, but most want

the option to go back to Old Coke. Call

it Classic, or whatever you need to get it through marketing, but keep it

available. Sales down the road will show what the client base really wants. If

the quality is there and you stand behind your product, the reputation of the campers

will sell themselves. That is what got me initially. I can only hope it is there when I look at

the next purchase.