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Old 10-16-2012, 05:44 AM   #221
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I think this is all stuff that's getting everybody's blood pressure up and increasing the stress level, and I think it's all for naught.
A company is going to do what they are going to do! We can't tell them what they should or shouldn't do, nor should we even try.
If we don't like it, move on. Buy a different brand, one that supplies what we want/think we want, or need. I can't see where it's doing one oz. of good, everybody telling them anything.
My firm opinion, is Tom is just blowing smoke. We have already been told what it will be.



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Old 10-16-2012, 06:10 AM   #222
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I would have to agree. As I have said before word of mouth and the power of the Internet will make or break them. Prospective owners will visit this site and otherRV forumsand read about the warranty being lowered to one year from the 2+5 and will read about all the quality issues on new units and the dealers lack of response to repairing those issues and think twice or move on to other brands that have longer warranties and good reputations for quality and customer service. If I were a prospective Crossroads buyer I would be asking the dealer I was working with to explain the new 1+Promise to me, my guess is they would not have a clue.
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:10 AM   #223
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The warranty booklet on our 2011 335SS states; "The entire unit is covered by the standard TWO YEAR limited warranty, starting from the date of delivery to the original purchaser". I take this to mean "bumper to bumper".



CrossRoads built it's reputation on building quality units and having the best warranty in the industry (Their own words). The following copy of the back page of a brochure from 2005 attests to this fact. Sadly that appears to no longer be true. The increasing quality control issues and basically gutting the warranty, in my opinion, lead me to believe that the company appears to have changed it's attitude toward both and appears to no longer hold to these values.







Having the best warranty in the industry is a big deal as is quality control. CrossRoads has stated that because of tremendous growth in sales the past 2 years they are building new production plants.In my opinion that growth was the result of the companies reputation from the prior years and that reputation has now been stained. Can it be repaired? That is up to not only the management at CrossRoads but also Peter Orthwein, the CEO at Thor Industries. Edited by: gball
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:24 AM   #224
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You're right Lloyd. But we've all hung around long after buying our CR unit in part for the company in these parts, and in part for the extraordinary company we've had the privilege of being associatged with. We all want CR to succeed and be a leader in the industry ... superior products, outstanding customer service, extraordinary construction, superlative warranty, best resale, etc. It's the combination that's kept me here and part of the forum.

However, I believe in taking a man at his word until proven otherwise. Translated, Tom says it is the best warranty in the industry and better than the old warranty. I frankly didn't believe it when he said it, don't believe it now and no doubt I will have good reason to think otherwise once he presents his case. But he deserves his day in the sun.



Tom lost credibility in my view when he did not deliver the comparison before going on vacation, as well as when he deleted whatever he had posted in the forum. The last item actually bothers me. I live my life by saying what I mean and meaning what I say. Sometimes (though rarely) I'm not only wrong, but need to apologize. I'm okay with that. Removing remarks from an online forum after you have posted detracts from one's character in my opinion. If you can't stand by what you stated or publicly retract/apologize, then you've lost credibility in my view.



We'll find out about the warranty soon and I don't mind being proven wrong. Don't expect I will, but there is always that possibility. By the time spring camping season rolls around I suspect most long time members here will have moved on and deserted this forum, as well as desert CR on our next purchase. It will be their loss, not ours. Collectively we have a wealth of knowledge and valuable input if management were to choose to tap into it.



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Old 10-16-2012, 06:51 AM   #225
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I still dont understand, ......if they (Crossroads) is growing faster than any other trailer manufac., and are building more assembly facilities,then that means their profits are also going up. If profits and sales are going up, then why didnt they just add the 12 point and make the warranty better but keep it a 2+5 yr warranty?



I see a trend here and it doesnt look good. Instead of Crossroads being a trend setter, they are now reversing and just going with the flow of what everyone else is doing.



i.e. 1)They went with welded frames instead of screwed frames. Everyone else except Crossroads was making a welded frame, so they, (Crossroads) went backwards and just started the welded frames to be like everyone else.



2)Now their warranty is a 1 year warranty, theirs was 2 yr warranty but everyone else in the industry has a 1 year warranty, so they lower it down to the industries 1 yr.



See the pattern here? Thye are just now trying to be like everyone else instead of turning the other way and doing what is right.



They lost me as a customer also. I did buy used, but the next one is going to be a new unit, but now it seems I will go somewhere else to buy that new unit because I feel as everyone else has, that Crossroads let us down, with more and more complaints about quality, and now a warranty that is just the same as everyone elses.



I really did want to stick with Crossroads but now the market is level all over, warranty wise, why stick with a company that is no longer setting the bar higher than the other companies?
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:53 AM   #226
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Maybe they will realize that they are losing hardcore customers when no one shows up at the Crossroads ralies this year. I know I wont be attending, why bother, it is just going to be a smoke and pony show.
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:06 AM   #227
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Brian, speaking of rallies I will no longer be organizing a Crossroads rally here in Texas anymore. Crossroads had always been a part of our rally but I was informed before the one back in April that Crossroads would be taking a different approach to rallies from now on and they would no longer be sending a rep for ours. This must be yet another of their new directions for Crossroads.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:13 AM   #228
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Guys,



You need to understand your RV's are "Crossroad" but the company is "THOR". They own the industry with market share. The easiest way to make an aquired division more profitable is to trim expences in comon areas;

Manufacturing Processes

Employees

Warranty Claims

It's just big business...





Time will tellif the "reduction of warranty work" will be reduced by terms or quality......

I will keep an eye on the forum over the next couple years to see who builds my toy hauler.

If new, a two year bumper / bumper will be a target as last time.



Here is a quote from Wikipedia>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor_Industries

__________________________________________________ ___________________

Like several other firms in the industry, Thor offers employee incentives based on productivity, with reductions in bonuses based on warranty work. Thor encourages employees to be actively involved in community programs and Thor executives serve on the boards of numerous civic organizations.

__________________________________________________ _____________________



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Old 10-16-2012, 10:22 AM   #229
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I just read over on the Redwood forum that they will have the 2+5 warranty plus the Promise. So they have increased the Redwood warranty but decreased the Crossroads warranty. Hmm, I guess the profits over at Redwood were up enough they did not have to cut cost (yet).....
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:42 AM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papa2



Tom lost credibility in my view when he did not deliver the comparison before going on vacation, as well as when he deleted whatever he had posted in the forum.Â* It will be their loss, not ours.Â* Collectively we have a wealth of knowledge and valuable input if management were to choose to tap into it.

Â*

Â*


Wait a minute, Tom goes on vacation after defending an indefensible company policy. And then his posts are deleted.



Wonder if he still has a job, be interesting to find out.



My 2 cents
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:52 AM   #231
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Tom's posts, as far as I can see, are still there.



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Old 10-16-2012, 12:19 PM   #232
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I don't think you actually read them ....

"<table ="tableBorder" align="center" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" style="text-align: left; border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb204, 204, 204; border-right-color: rgb204, 204, 204; border-bottom-color: rgb204, 204, 204; border-left-color: rgb204, 204, 204; : rgb255, 255, 255; width: 958px; table-layout: fixed; "><t><tr ="msgableRow" style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb0, 0, 0; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.4; : rgb251, 251, 253; height: 200px; min-height: 200px; "><td valign="top" ="msgLineDevider" style="border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb225, 227, 236; border-right-color: rgb225, 227, 236; border-bottom-color: rgb225, 227, 236; border-left-color: rgb225, 227, 236; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-top-width: 1px; "><div ="msg" style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb0, 0, 0; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.4; width: 809px; margin-top: 2px; margin-right: 2px; margin-bottom: 2px; margin-left: 2px; : left; overflow-x: auto; overflow-y: auto; ">1

Edited by tmontague - 27 Sep 2012 at 10:06pm"</span></td></tr><tr ="postSeparatorTableRow" style="height: 10px; : rgb235, 238, 247; "></tr></t></table>I've been involved in this thread from near the begin.ning and I certainly don't recall his post of "1. Take a look at page 5 of the thread.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:23 PM   #233
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Not all of Tom'sposts were deleted. I think just the ones that got into an arguement and were inappropriate were deleted. There are still other posts. He did also post since he got back from vacation stating he has it done and is trying to get it posted (although that is not a hard thing to do).
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:12 PM   #234
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Something smells in this thread.
Anybody else smell it???
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:30 PM   #235
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I have been smelling it since Tom's first post.



Still waiting......
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:08 AM   #236
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I have to admit I have not read this entire thread. I have only skimmed it but I do have to say that the fact that this thread still exists says something about the company. This forum has (from the time I have been here) always allowed the good and the bad to be aired for all to see. We did lose some of the early stuff when the forum format changed but there has been no "moderator" censoring things. Someone, from CR did respond to this thread and from what I have gleaned from skimming this thread may have responded in some less than professional ways at times but this thread is still here (all 25 pages or so) and anyone who comes to this forum can read it. I will admit the 2 year warranty was something that sold me on our Cruiser. The change in warranty would certainly make me think harder about my choice if I were buying a new unit today but based on my current rig, CR would certainly be on my short list. There is no perfect camper, almost every new unit has something that needs fixed. In my opinion, it shouldn’t be that way but it is. I have had several new cars/trucks over the years and only 1 has had to go back for warranty work and that only took 2 days. I have to think an automobile is a more complicated thing than a camper but the vast majority of automobiles are fine straight from the factory. This is virtually an industry wide issue with rvs. I have talked to many people in CGs who say, don’t ever buy this brand or that brand and then give me a list of unresolved problems they have had with their units. I will admit I have not talked to that many CR unit owners but the ones I have talked to are very happy with their units and the people who have dealt with the service people at the factory have nothing but positive comments. I have not heard other brand owners say they have the positive experiences with factory service that CR owners seem to have. I know that some CR owners have certainly had on-going problems with their units. I am not trying to downplay those problems at all. I had an issue with my unit over a defect in the fiberglass that was to be repaired under warranty by my selling dealer. The dealer botched the repair so I took it back to the factory. It was then done right. CR did not “balk� at the initial repair and when it was not done correctly they made it right. No problem. So what I take away from all of this is that there are a couple of problems here. 1) Some of the owners I read about here are having trouble getting repairs done correctly or done in a timely manner by their selling dealer. This is a problem at the dealer level that I honestly don’t think CR has much control over. If they want to sell the units, they need the dealers. If CR puts too much pressure on the dealers then the dealer just drops them and picks up a different brand or sells more of the brands they already carry. What is the answer here? Company owned dealerships only selling CR units? Sounds similar to the auto industry but I don’t think it would work for rvs. Everyone I know owns at least 1 car but I know a lot of people who don’t have a camper. I don’t think they could sell enough units to stay afloat. It could become a “factory direct� type company like a few others but those are big dollar, custom units not entry or mid-level units. 2) The 1 year warranty doesn’t give enough time for some problems to show themselves. In our case we discovered all our problems in the first year but we had 2 trips to Florida and a trip to Myrtle Beach as well as several weekend local trips. We spent probably 10-12 weeks in ours and put over 10,000 miles on it in that first year. I don’t think this is typical. I know a lot of the owners on this forum spend a lot of time in their units but there are also a lot of weekend warriors out there that only do a couple of weeks in the summer and some weekend camping. Those folks may not discover all the issues right away. 3) Cutting the warranty gives the impression that the company has less confidence in the product which consequently leaves the buyer with less confidence. But, if the industry standard is only 1 year and they have no previous experience with CR then the buyer doesn’t know any different. I had an engineer once tell me and I believed that most things have what is called the “bathtub effect�. If there is a defect with an item it will show up pretty soon after you start using it (like how a bathtub drops down right away). It will then go a long time without a problem (like how the bottom of the tub is flat and doesn’t change). Then as it reaches the end of its useful life, it will go bad all of a sudden (like how the tub bottom rises back up at the other end). The question is does 1 year give most owners enough time to use the unit enough to expose those problems? 4) There have been a fair number of posts about the new management at CR. I honestly don’t know anything about them. The product they build will tell you everything you need to know about the company and its management. I have no experience with the new products so I have no real opinion. I will end my post where I started it which is to say that they have allowed this forum to continue to allow us to air the good and bad about CR.

Lonnie

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Old 10-17-2012, 03:32 AM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Farmer
I think this is all stuff that's getting everybody's blood pressure up and increasing the stress level, and I think it's all for naught.
A company is going to do what they are going to do! We can't tell them what they should or shouldn't do, nor should we even try.
If we don't like it, move on. Buy a different brand, one that supplies what we want/think we want, or need. I can't see where it's doing one oz. of good, everybody telling them anything.
My firm opinion, is Tom is just blowing smoke. We have already been told what it will be.


I agree Old Farmer, CR has made there mind up and it doesn't seem like they are going to change anything. It's their loss, there's other companies that make a good unit and you have the right to buy from another company. It is too bad that CR has decided to do this, but in the big picture will this really hurt there business. I think people look more at floor plans then anything else, but I guess only time will tell. I do give Tom credit for joining the forum and trying to explain things at least you know someone at CR pays attention to us.
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Old 10-17-2012, 04:30 AM   #238
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longhauler, I think that was more an attempt at damage control than him caring what we think or explaining anything.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:08 AM   #239
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If I could personally visit with the corporate executives at Crossroads I would remind them of the business principle of "perception vs. reality ".

In "reality" Crossroads may be increasing it's quality and have every intention of their new warranty policy serving the customer well.

However, the "perception" is that the company is hedging on it's commitment to the customer. In fact, they might have sold just as many units in the past, and we all might have been just as happy if they had had a one year warranty like other RV manufacturers. That would have eliminated their now having to explain why they are decreasing the warranty period.

As American consumers we might as well get used to these manufacturing cost cutting and quality cutting measures. Instead of increasing the cost of the product to consumers, corners are cut in production and service. We see this everyday now!




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Old 10-17-2012, 06:28 AM   #240
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I thought hard aboutreplying to this post since most all that could be said has.
When our choice for a new rig was no longer an option, a Crossroads product was on our very short list. This was due in part to the layouts and options available, but mostly to those owners, both past and present, whobelieved sostrongly in Crossroads. Quite a few of them belong to this and other forums and when any opportunity to promote Crossroads products arose, they were some of the first to reply. What Ipersonally noted about those replies was not that Crossroads was perfect, but they took care of you and made it right. Always able to back up that statement, was Crossroads own claim they had the best warranty in the business. I think they feel now their promotionof Crossroads is the same as those recommending SOB and with more and more quality issues arising, well, I think you get the picture.
I really don't think Tom could change this even if he wanted. His bosses already have made the decision.
The only thing I could ask Tom and the rest of the team at Crossroads, that if they brought in a say a 2005 or 2006 Cruiser fiver, could they honestly say that besides the glitz and glamour, that the new unit was better in design, quality of materials and construction and hands down, better than the older units ? If so, the warranty would be a mute point.
Just saying.
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