2013 Elevation 3912 - Converter Charger Info

[englishmatt]

Hey Guys...so this is just an informational thread to maybe save some folks some time.

I'm about to upgrade my single 12v battery to 2 or 4 x 6v batteries and have been spending time researching converter chargers to make sure I don't kill the new batteries with crappy standard gear. That said, there is very little information on the web as to which Converter/Charger comes in any unit.

I called CR and they were unsure about which converter/charger I had.

My goal is two fold:

1.) Be able to boondock as long as possible on Battery Power without running the generator.

2.) Recharge said batteries in as little time as possible without running the generator for hours upon end. Even though the onboard Gen is an ONAN 5500, which is pretty quiet, I'd still prefer to run less Gen and more batteries.

To Goal # 1 - I have decided to purchase the Trojan T105 batteries. Each battery gives 225AH at 20 hours. Four (4) of these guys will give me about 450AH @ 20hrs (so approx 22.5A for 20 hrs, assuming I don't let the batteries charge down past 50%) to play with. The total AH pool will be 900AH.

Knowing that I'm not going to need 22.5A per hour (running TV, Music, Lights, Furnace, etc...), I should be able to run longer. I am aware I'm not taking the Air Conditioning into account.

To Goal # 2 - Make sure I have the appropriate converter/charger system so recharge the 450AH as quickly as possible so I run less GEN power AND maintain my batteries for optimal performance during the storage months (my unit stay plugged in to 120v when at the storage place) without over charging them.

Since the internet wasn't playing ball, I decided to head to the unit and take a few pics. Turns out that in MY SPECIFIC 2013 3912 I have the Progressive Dynamix PD4950 18LV with Charge Wizard. Essentially it's a Stage 4 system, which is good news since I no longer feel I need to upgrade it.

I have seen on the web several 3912s with 75A systems advertised.

Here's the details:

Progressive Dynamics PD4590K18LV AC DC Distribution Panel & Inteli-Power Converter with Charge Wizard 90A Camper Trailer RV

90A AC/DC Distribution Panel and Inteli-Power Converter with Charge Wizard

AC/DC Distribution Panel and Inteli-Power Converter with Charge Wizard

Inteli-Power 4500 Series models can recharge the battery to 90% in 2-3 hours using our patented Charge Wizard technology.

The built-in Charge Wizard automatically selects one of three operating modes: BOOST, NORMAL, STORAGE.

Boost Mode - Indicated by green LED remaining on. The output voltage is 14.4VDC to rapidly recharge the battery up to 90% of full charge.

Normal Mode - When the battery is between 50% and 90% charged, the green LED will flash once per second. When the battery has reached 90% of full charge the green LED will flash 2 - 3 times per second. In this mode the output voltage is 13.6VDC and the converter is safely completing the charge of the battery

Storage Mode - Indicated by green LED flashing every 6 - 8 seconds. In this mode the output voltage has been lowered to 13.2VDC, the RV battery is fully charged and the converter is maintaining the charge.

Inteli-Power AC Features:

• The AC Distribution Panel is rated for 240 VAC @ 50 AMPS input voltage. Maximum output voltage is 120 VAC @ 50 AMPS.
• Provisions for up to 12 branch breakers (breakers not included).
• 
  Vertical or horizontal mounting choices.
  
• 
  Center feed dual 50 AMP main breaker (not included).
  
• AC Panel features 12 built-in push and lock strain relief wiring connectors for quick installation. Saves over 50% on installation cost.
• 
  Vertical or horizontal mounting choices.
  
  Attractive light weight panel design made from impact-resistant high temperature polymers.
• Covered by one or more of the following patents: 5,687,066 5,600,550 5,982,643 6,184,649 6,424,520 6,430,036, and 7,782,002.

Note: AC Breakers are not included and shown for reference only.

Inteli-Power DC Features:

• Top two fuse holders recommended for low current devices such as smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors
• 
  
  
  12 or 18 Branch fuse holders with maximum rating of 30 AMPS each.
• 
  
  
  Optional terminal block or wired branch circuit connections.
• 
  
  
  Optional L.E.D. indicators identify which fuse is blown.
• 
  
  
  Converter/Charger section is accessible from the front.
• 
  
  
  Converter/Charger ratings of 60 and 90 AMP, which is the largest rating available in the industry.
• 
  
  
  Easy access reverse battery protection fuses.
• DC disconnect - allows the attachment of a remote DC disconnect switch.
  
• Optional DC Ground Buss can be user-installed in the DC wiring compartment.

Other PD4500 Series Features:

• Reverse battery protection
• Electronic current limiting
  
  
  
• 
  Low line voltage protection
  
• 
  Intelligent cooling fan
  
• 
  High voltage protection
  
• 
  Automatic thermal protection
  
• Press open door for easy access to circuit breakers
• Front access to large wiring compartment

http://www.progressivedyn.com/pdfs/f...ne_catalog.pdf

The above link goes to the full catalogue of PD Converters in case yours is different.

Hopefully, this will save some folks several hours and or a trip to their unit if they are trying to figure out what converter/charging system they have.

Thanks.

Matt.

[Lloyd]

Matt
Am I missing something here?
Won't you be in need of an Inverter? When I was going to do all that I was looking at Xantrex. 2000 watt/100 amp charger.
RV Inverter Charger | Recreational Vehicles | Xantrex

I did install 2, Trojan T-105 6V
I wish I had purchased the T-145 while I was at it.

[englishmatt]

Originally Posted by Lloyd

Matt
Am I missing something here?
Won't you be in need of an Inverter? When I was going to do all that I was looking at Xantrex. 2000 watt/100 amp charger.
RV Inverter Charger | Recreational Vehicles | Xantrex

I did install 2, Trojan T-105 6V
I wish I had purchased the T-145 while I was at it.

You are not missing a thing mate. I haven't got that far yet. Lol. The next thing is to figure out what inverter is installed. I know there's one there...I just need to find it.

I am by no means an electrical guy.

Stay tuned for part 2!

[englishmatt]

Update: The PD4950 is an All In One Inverter/Converter/Charger. The Inverter rating is 1550W

Additionally, the PD4590 will "equalize the batteries" every 21 says as part of it's "Inteli-Power" function. This makes me feel better about leaving the RV plugged in all the time while in storage.

I do intend to purchase a Trimetric 2030 Battery Monitor ---> Trimetric 2030RV Battery System Monitor to keep me honest on making sure I do not exceed the 50% unknowingly.

From what I've read, the Golf Cart batteries seem to "like" a deeper discharge so I may on occasion let them have a deeper discharge.

Again, my thoughts behind this thread was simply to highlight the Electrical System in the Elevation 3912, since CR doesn't have a clear picture.

[Lloyd]

I don't know that I agree with the deeper discharge part. I know they like a steady charge like coming off a solar panel. Go to Trojan's web site and read on their batteries.

[efiguy]

Originally Posted by englishmatt

Update: The PD4950 is an All In One Inverter/Converter/Charger. The Inverter rating is 1550 watts.

Hey, where did you get this info?
I have the same unit on my 3812 Elevation. I can't find any documentation in my coach or on PD'S website that shows the unit as an INVERTER. Also, I have a residential refer and I can't seem to find a switch or other way to run the fridge without the generator or shore power... (bought it used and of course dealer had no idea during PDI)

There isn't a single mention of the word Inverter anywhere in the PD Installation and Operation manual.

[englishmatt]

I took it right off progressive dynamics website. You can download the manual too.

I then called Crossroads and asked them just to make sure I was reading the information correctly.

Lastly, I went boondocking for 3 days this past week and used just about everything except the AC successfully for over 10 hours. I then started the generator just to top the batteries back up. It took less than 3 hours to run the batteries back to full charge. I repeated this process/cycle throughout the entire trip.

I haven't had a chance to install an auto genny starter and battery monitor yet.

All of the above makes me feel comfortable that the PD4950 is indeed an inverter too.

Cheers

Matt.

[efiguy]

Well that's good news. I've obviously missed it on the website. I've got the original paper users manual and still didn't see a mention of any inverter capability.
I'll recheck the website.
Thanks for he help. So is there a switch anywhere that turns inverter on or is it automatic?

[englishmatt]

Its automatic mate. You don't need to do anything.

[efiguy]

Originally Posted by englishmatt

Its automatic mate. You don't need to do anything.

Cool. So does it power all the outlets or only certain ones? How do I know the difference?

I see on the unit now where it says 1550 W on the INPUT side but no mention of any 120v OUTPUT.

please don't take this as a challenge to your info, I'm genuinely trying to understand

[englishmatt]

So I can only answer like this....

I plugged "stuff" into any socket I wanted to. Both inside and out. I ran a work light outside so I could grill at night. I had the TV running. I charged my cell phone Blah blah blah.

I also ran my electric kettle for a cup of tea in the kitchen. I thought I read 1550W as the output, but could easily be wrong.

I honestly took the approach of running normal operation (including furnace) to see if I would exceed the units capacity and/or needed to add an additional inverter. After this trip, I have decided I'm good with things as they are.

Throw a call to Progressive Dynamics and let us know what they say as far as the output specifics.

Cheers,

Matt.

[Lloyd]

Matt, have you got a link to that info on progressive's site?

[markovwgti]

My original Crown battery was dead when i got my trailer back from the dealer a few days ago. I went out and got 2 T105's and connected them in series and its working great. Im trying to see if i can connect two more T105's in the battery compartment area. My plans are to put a 275W solar panel on the roof, maybe even two of them. Getting some help with my friend who has 6 T105's in his sailboat with 2 270W panels on it.

Im trying to locate my inverter as well to see which one i have in my 2013 TF4012. Where was yours?

[englishmatt]

I thought I posted a link Lloyd, sorry about that. I will post it when I get back from vacation on Monday.

Mark - My Progressive Dynamics unit is in the same place ad the main fuse panel (below my tv). The 4950 seems to be an all in obe unit.

I now have four T105s hooked up and they do fit in my battery box, albeit tight. I think my 3912 and your 4012 share many parts and pieces.

[markovwgti]

Excuse my terrible wording about the parts I'm talking about since I'm new to all this especially electronics.

I fit 2 t105's in my compartment towards the front of it more, it fits great. Now for the next two behind those i might have an issue. Some of the cables for the battery were going behind a small black protective casing and i think it'll get in the way for the batteries to go sideways there as well. I might have to remove the casing for the batteries to fit. Did you have the same issue?


What do you mean the inverter was same place as the main fuse panel? Was it behind it?

[markovwgti]

Well after reading a bit on the Progressive Dynamics unit I'm realizing the panel and converter are the same thing! hah...what a little reading will do!

[englishmatt]

Mark,

All four of my batteries fit, but they are a tight squeeze. I did not remove that little black cover, but I did think about it.

In our 5th wheels, the PD4950 is a all-in-one unit. It is the Inverter/charger/converter in the same device. Additionally, the main fuse panel comes part of it too. In more traditional 5th wheels, these would all be separate devices...not the case with ours.

There are some pretty cool you tube videos of these devices.

It's my opinion that in this instance we may have actually "lucked out" and got a pretty neat system.

[englishmatt]

Check out this link...

Ultimate All-in-One 240V, 50 Amp AC/DC Power Distribution Panel

[markovwgti]

And upon reading more i just realized that! Thank you for the info!

I was thinking about going with T145's now since another member mentioned it. Just a bit heavier and an inch taller. Would it be a bad idea to have 2 T105's in series with 2 T 145's or will i not need the 145's?

And yes i think we finally did luck out and get a sweet system!

[englishmatt]

Mark - that's above my pay grade mate. I will have to defer to some of the battery gods on here. I have always used the thought pattern of sticking to the same type. Primary because of the different AH ratings and draw/discharge rates.

That said, I've read tons of posts where folks mix and match Old/New batteries and all sorts of other voodoo.

Sorry mate, I'll tap out here.