Here we go again...2013 Model 3912

[englishmatt]

So we are back to the dealer for what appears to be major structural issues.

When hitched to the truck, the front curved edge separates about 1/2" to expose bare wood and split the seams on both sides.

As it hitches up the pin moves about 3/4 inch (raises) before the RV lifts off the ground.

This pic is with the RV hitched to my truck with the landing gear off the ground...



This next pic is what it looks like not hitched with the landing gear down...



Very concerned that a cross beam has broken a weld. We will see.

At least the structural warranty should cover it.


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[mxr515]

Sorry to hear about this Matt. There happens to be a similar unit up at my dealer with that lower front section removed due to an accident. I'll be up there on Friday and can get some pics if it would be at all helpful. Hope they get you back on the rode quickly, sorry to hear about your troubles.

[englishmatt]

Originally Posted by mxr515

Sorry to hear about this Matt. There happens to be a similar unit up at my dealer with that lower front section removed due to an accident. I'll be up there on Friday and can get some pics if it would be at all helpful. Hope they get you back on the rode quickly, sorry to hear about your troubles.

Thanks for the offer. The unit is back at the dealer now. Thankfully we are not full timers so I'm not depending on the unit. I suspect it'll be a few months before I get it back.

Add this one to the list of over 50 issues within the first 3yrs.

I think I'm about at the end of my rope with this one...

Next stop will be legal advice and a return request.


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[englishmatt]

So we have identified the problem. CR told my dealer to drop the flooring and check out the frame; which my dealer did.

Turns out some of the lag bolts that attach the side wall to the frame and the flooring to the frame have stretched out allowing the walls and flooring to move under load.

Now, why have they stretched you ask? Well, two reasons 1.) not enough lag bolts were used in the initial construction and 2.) some of the bolts missed the wall completely and did not attach the wall to the frame.

This resulted in the remaining bolts getting over stressed and stretched out causing the sidewall and flooring to move/flex which opened up the seams and damaged the wood in my walk in closet.

CR will send the dealer all new lag bolts, made of stronger metal and my dealer will install them. Worth noting CR is taking care of the repair charges and once again standing behind this unit...well out of warranty.

Then, as added value, my dealer will add a couple more larger lag bolts just for good measure.

So the good news is that I don't have broken welds or a tweaked frame...and the fix is pretty simple. That said, it always goes back to "what you can't see..." when you're trying to make a judgement call on the quality of a unit.

You can have all the fancy TVs and appliances you like, but if the structure isn't built to the initial spec due to sloppy workmanship...you're in for an expensive future.

Oh, FYI, in-spec pin box flex is 3/8". Anything more than 3/8" and you may want to investigate.

Worth mentioning that CR said they have seen a few elevations with this issue. Not many, but a few of the larger units.

I'll update further if anything changes.


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[mxr515]

Very good news Matt, glad to hear Crossroads is making this right for you and hopefully you'll be on the road soon.

Mike

[englishmatt]

SOOO... after adding additional, stronger, longer lug bolts and screws to the frame, the fix was called good.

Well, 60 miles drive home and guess what? Yup...seams opened up again. Dealer is now back in talks with Crossroads.

Stay tuned...again.

[Dayle1]

Originally Posted by englishmatt

SOOO... after adding additional, stronger, longer lug bolts and screws to the frame, the fix was called good.

Well, 60 miles drive home and guess what? Yup...seams opened up again. Dealer is now back in talks with Crossroads.

Stay tuned...again.

RV frames do flex and the sidewalls being bolted or screwed to the frame do provide some stiffening of the frame, but depending on the sidewalls to keep the frame from flexing too much is doomed to fail. If not right away, then it will fail over time. I think CR was trying to go the cheap and quick fix, hoping it would work. I can't tell why some units have more frame flex (w/o broken welds) than other units of the same model, but it happens. Anyway, your frame needs to be stiffened with additional steel, not just by adding lag bolts into the walls.

As an FYI, the link in my signature has some pics of when Lippert repaired my Cruiser in 2011. I had significant flex but no damage to the walls or trim. There is a view of the frame drawing with the mods highlighted in yellow. The mods done to my unit became a permanent change on new Cruisers.

Again, this is just FYI, your frame and weight are different and your fix will probably be different as well. My guess would be angle steel added along the inside edge of the bedroom frame rails from the front edge back to near the landing gear area.

[englishmatt]

Originally Posted by Dayle1

RV frames do flex and the sidewalls being bolted or screwed to the frame do provide some stiffening of the frame, but depending on the sidewalls to keep the frame from flexing too much is doomed to fail. If not right away, then it will fail over time. I think CR was trying to go the cheap and quick fix, hoping it would work. I can't tell why some units have more frame flex (w/o broken welds) than other units of the same model, but it happens. Anyway, your frame needs to be stiffened with additional steel, not just by adding lag bolts into the walls.



As an FYI, the link in my signature has some pics of when Lippert repaired my Cruiser in 2011. I had significant flex but no damage to the walls or trim. There is a view of the frame drawing with the mods highlighted in yellow. The mods done to my unit became a permanent change on new Cruisers.



Again, this is just FYI, your frame and weight are different and your fix will probably be different as well. My guess would be angle steel added along the inside edge of the bedroom frame rails from the front edge back to near the landing gear area.

Thanks for the input. I do believe it's a much bigger issue.

With laminated walls, expecting a customer to reseal both sides every time you move the RV to prevent water and subsequent delamination is "a bit much" in my opinion.

CR have been good on everything thus far, we will see if they continue their good track record.




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[Papa-T]

So sorry about the problems. I hope they can get it figured out and fixed. Any water damage due to the separation?

[englishmatt]

Not yet. I'm working hard to avoid it. Once the delamination starts, it's hard to stop.


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[englishmatt]

So quick update - My rig is headed back to CR in Topeka to get repaired/reengineered.


yes - It's a much larger issue. I mean, bigly.
yes - needs to be reengineered up front
yes - CR, IMO are stepping up to repair the unit for the long haul.
yes - my 3912 has spent 18 months of it's 36m life at the dealer getting fixed
No - I can't go into detail for the repair work...today
yes - I will detail the issue, remediation and fix once it's complete

Is it too much to ask to just use my rig and not have ot have repairs after every use?

Good news - I bought a new 2017 3500 Dually Bighorn today, to ease my RV depression!

Stay tuned.

[soonerfan580]

I have the same issue on my elevation 3612, how did CR repair the issue

[englishmatt]

Originally Posted by soonerfan580

I have the same issue on my elevation 3612, how did CR repair the issue

They took the front end and both front sidewalks off and welded a bunch of support angle iron throughout the frame.

They also removed ALL Lag bolts and replaced them with Carriage bolts so there will never be a concern of the walls pulling out from the frame.

I asked, and they provided, photos of all the new angle iron they welded in place as well as all the new carriage bolts along the entire length of the trailer.

[soonerfan580]

I love the trailer, great lay out, I purchased it from the original owner he had to replace slide motors, one AC and after taking a look at the front edge molding he must have had to repair it as it must have been separating like yours did (had new screws in it). It sounds like a lot of work to repair it correctly. I will contact CR maybe they can give guidance involving repair. Anyway if you have the pics of the repair and could send them to me would be awesome.

[englishmatt]

Originally Posted by soonerfan580

I love the trailer, great lay out, I purchased it from the original owner he had to replace slide motors, one AC and after taking a look at the front edge molding he must have had to repair it as it must have been separating like yours did (had new screws in it). It sounds like a lot of work to repair it correctly. I will contact CR maybe they can give guidance involving repair. Anyway if you have the pics of the repair and could send them to me would be awesome.

The files are pretty large, but if you shoot me your email address, I’ll send the pics over.

[soonerfan580]

I sent you PM

[OutThere500]

I have had the same issue with my 2013 3616. I would also like to see those pics. If I PM you my email address could you send me the pics as well? Thanks.

[englishmatt]

Originally Posted by OutThere500

I have had the same issue with my 2013 3616. I would also like to see those pics. If I PM you my email address could you send me the pics as well? Thanks.

Yup, I’ll shoot the pics to you.

[busaracing]

Sir, I just sent you a PM for pics of the repair. Thanks

[RigmanIX]

Sir, if possible can you send me the pictures of your repair mentioned in this post. I have sent you a PM with my email address