Ford Superduty 6.2L or 6.7L

[oxt127]

You should do some reading here.
6.7L Power Stroke Diesel - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

[johnboytoo]

I participated in FTE for YEARS - I think from 2002 when I got my first of three diesel Excursions thru last year when I traded my last 2013 F-350 6.7 platinum CCSB in on our current coach...

I drove them all as daily drivers and IMHO, two of your summations might miss the mark a bit:
1) short drives kill diesels?
and
2) Maintenance is more expensive?

First, I will say, once you get used to the torque of a diesel, no naturally aspirated gas engine will do - even my stepson's 6.2L raptor seems to struggle to me.

to 1) above - if you never drive more than a mile or two, possibily, but do you never leave your neighborhood ? I drove ours like a car... mpg for a towing vehicle should never be a consideration - you are getting it to TOW, any compromises and you lessen the tow ability.

to 2) - on MY diesels, while more oil is required during an oil change, it is much less frequent and last longer in mine...
heck in our current cummins engined motorhome the oil change interval is 20k miles

test drive them, make sure the specs bear out to what you need and get one...

No need for Analysis - Paralysis ...

[travelin texans]

I don't have a Ford, but do agree with JBT. I've used a diesels a daily driver for the last 11years & it's not affected the trucks that I've noticed. Oil change intervals on my GMC is 7500-10000 miles or once a year whichever comes first, so that's1 compared to 3-5 times on a gas In that same year. And once you go diesel for towing, you'll NEVER go gas again!!!

[DavisK]

I agree with John Boy and Travelin Texans.

[NoodlesWIU]

MPG would be a consideration for me if affordability is a concern. Life is full of compromises between "wants", and "needs". What I want unfortunately does not exist. Which would be a 3/4 ton 4.5L Ecoboost gas truck capable of 450 HP, and 5-600 Lbs torque at 2500 rpm that gets 15-18 MPG average non towing, and 8-10 when towing. I'll keep dreaming.... =(

In the mean time, I believe you guys have helped me determine a diesel is the way to go. It looks like an F-350 6.7L Lariat will be somewhere in the near future. The only question left is whether I buy new or used.

[oxt127]

Used ones hold there value very well, but you can look for a certified pre-owned to get an extended warranty.

[travelin texans]

Those mileages are what I'm getting now in a 3500 dually, it's not a Ford though.

[superduty glampers]

Over this past Christmas we went from Elizabethtown KY to Tampa FL and back, I averaged 10.3-11.7mpg and that is pulling a 40 foot Redwood. I never one time felt that I needed more power or torque. You can buy a new gas truck for what you'll pay for a used diesel. Comparing a 6.2 rapture sport truck to a 6.2 Super Duty work truck is apples to oranges.

[Loneoak]

We have owned our 6.7 liter since early June last year. Since then we have towed the trailer around (10,500 - 11,000 lbs. loaded), driven it on a long highway trip without the trailer, and drove around a mostly urban area in Florida for several months. I have kept track of all the fuel consumption, and here are my figures:

towing - 10 - 12 mpg (various terrain)
highway, no trailer - 19 - 21 mpg (no mountains)
around town in Florida - 17 - 20 mpg

All above figures in U.S. mpg and were only for fill-ups where it was all towing or no towing, not a mix.

As for short trips killing a diesel, I have never heard that. Friends of ours have a Dodge diesel truck that is over 15 years old. They tow with it, but they also drive around urban areas a lot (short trips). I don't think this has hurt their engine at all.

I hope this helps.

[frosty42]

Sorry folks...but unless you are driving a diesel that is DPF equipped, you do not understand the fact that short-tripping a diesel on a daily basis is harmful. I too have driven a diesel for the last 15 years and believe me, I miss my 5.9 Cummins. I do love my current 6.7 Cummins, but the emissions is handicapping the motor. It needs heat and long runs to keep the DPF clog free. Does not matter if it is Ford, Chevy or Ram. DPF's are all the same. Even with DEF and SCR, short trips do not permit the motor to reach full operating temperature to burn off the particulate matter before settling in the DPF.

Taking my personal opinion out of the picture, I am around heavy duty diesels (fire apparatus) everyday at work. My department has a version of every diesel out there and I can tell you that every DPF equipped truck is struggling with short trips, which is 99% of their work load. Take a look at your local ambulance provider. Most, if not all, are switching back to gasoline powered rigs.

As to oil changes, I challenge every diesel owner to send a sample of your oil in for analysis. My personal truck (Ram) has a recommendation of an oil change every 15,000 miles or six months, whichever occurs first. I send a sample in every change and every report has come back with a recommendation of not to exceed 10,000 miles max. Most people change their fuel filters when doing an oil change so that is where there is an increase in maintenance cost.

I am a die-hard diesel fan and it would be very difficult for me to go back to a gasser. With that said, those that have never driven a diesel need to be well informed as to the pro's and con's to ownership and what a diesel's primary mission is and is not. Fuel economy must be a consideration if 90% of it's mission is a daily driver. DPF equipped trucks are not the same diesels of ten years ago. Take away the DPF and my opinion completely changes (for the better).

I believe most of us agree that diesel is the way to go, but reality is that owning a diesel is more expensive to own & operate. Just my .02 worth!

[Loneoak]

A lot of people who tow trailers drive diesels because they are better at towing. They get to where they ae going, then drive around to see and do things. So there are going to be short trips. We towed our trailer all the way to Florida and now we need our truck to get around. I don't see any way around it.

[EJL]

I agree that emissions has hurt the diesel, but not enough to make me not want one. I think the problems about short trips are less with the new DEF system. The older system, "Re-gen", required that you maintain a certain RPM anytime your engine went into "Re-gen" Mode, until it finished. The reason was to maintain high temps in the exhaust. I don't believe the Re-gen system was ever used on pickups, only large diesels. Re-gen was a nightmare on Fire apparatus, but my department has had no noticeable problems with the DEF system. With the new system, the urea is injected periodically causing burn off. Although I wish they would leave it off, I think it would only cause a problem if you rarely reached operating temp, but that really is'nt good for any combustion engine. That's how my non-expert brain understands it.

[travelin texans]

I talked to guys that say they wouldn't own a diesel using DEF, but my experience is it's not a big deal. Mine will use about 5 gals of DEF every 6-8 thousand miles & if caught on sale at a parts store is about $10 for 2.5 gals, at the pump at a truck stop it's about a $1.50 per gal. Been using this truck daily for over 3 years & no problems. Had an '05 without DEF & this '13 has more power, better mileage, & more torque.

[johnboytoo]

Other than the years sharing on FTE with all the other def equipped 6.7's, my experience with the new emissions has only been on 2 pickups and the current motorhome...
The pickups used the def and the regens were a non event on both...
On the first one I was worried about when to put in def, etc... but after they started putting def at the pumps, I just filled it up every once in a while...

Only if I was REALLY watching for it would I notice the regens, now they were a 2012 and 2012 6.7 so maybe they had it worked out... but NO issue for me as a daily driver...

The current coach is the cummins 425hp-1260lbft torque version and does NOT use def, but has the epa choking exhaust... again - non issue -

[frosty42]

Agreed that the DEF has greatly improved the operating condition of the DPF's, and short trips are a necessary evil. My point to the discussion here is that short trips on a regular, frequent basis (more than 90%) of daily driving is not beneficial to the life of the motor.

My DEF equipped truck has only went into regeneration once that I am aware of. Friends of mine who have the same model year have received multiple regen now messages and when I compared operating conditions, short trips were the difference.

All I can say is that I cannot wait for the weather to break so that the camper can resume chasing me around again. I love these discussions though in the mean time!

[Dayle1]

Originally Posted by frosty42

Agreed that the DEF has greatly improved the operating condition of the DPF's, and short trips are a necessary evil. My point to the discussion here is that short trips on a regular, frequent basis (more than 90%) of daily driving is not beneficial to the life of the motor.

But when talking about tow vehicles, who is going to use it 90% of the time for short trips? If that is the case then it isn't a tow vehicle, but a daily driver that is capable of towing (but not really used for towing).

Originally Posted by frosty42

My DEF equipped truck has only went into regeneration once that I am aware of. Friends of mine who have the same model year have received multiple regen now messages and when I compared operating conditions, short trips were the difference.

More likely, you just don't notice when it is in regen, but even with DEF it is impossible to NOT build up soot in the DPF and then go into regen. I'm not familiar with the RAM system, but mine regens when soot hits 42 grams. Definitely towing reduces the rate of soot buildup while short trips/idling accelerates it. But the differences are not that dramatic. I use an Edge Insight to monitor soot levels and regen status and I average about 700 miles between regens, plus or minus 100 miles. That is the amount of variation.

Because the factory systems do not show soot level, anyone can get a 'forced regen' message if they are doing a lot of short trips. For GM that happens at 54 grams, so if I'm getting close to the 42 gram level, then I know it may be necessary to add a road trip before a bunch of short trips. So far that has never been necessary. I agree, these trucks would function better w/o the emission controls, but they should work fine for frequent trips of at least 10 miles.

It's a simple issue, tow trucks don't make the best daily drivers for very short trips and good short trip vehicles (electric cars?) can't work for towing.

[frosty42]

Originally Posted by Dayle1

But when talking about tow vehicles, who is going to use it 90% of the time for short trips? If that is the case then it isn't a tow vehicle, but a daily driver that is capable of towing (but not really used for towing).



More likely, you just don't notice when it is in regen, but even with DEF it is impossible to NOT build up soot in the DPF and then go into regen. I'm not familiar with the RAM system, but mine regens when soot hits 42 grams. Definitely towing reduces the rate of soot buildup while short trips/idling accelerates it. But the differences are not that dramatic. I use an Edge Insight to monitor soot levels and regen status and I average about 700 miles between regens, plus or minus 100 miles. That is the amount of variation.

Because the factory systems do not show soot level, anyone can get a 'forced regen' message if they are doing a lot of short trips. For GM that happens at 54 grams, so if I'm getting close to the 42 gram level, then I know it may be necessary to add a road trip before a bunch of short trips. So far that has never been necessary. I agree, these trucks would function better w/o the emission controls, but they should work fine for frequent trips of at least 10 miles.

It's a simple issue, tow trucks don't make the best daily drivers for very short trips and good short trip vehicles (electric cars?) can't work for towing.

You would be surprised how many people in my area who have a diesel and do not pull a thing.

[DerwoodF350]

Another reason to go diesel is that when it's time to trade in or sell they hold their value much better. Basically you usually get that extra $ you shelled out up front back.
And as all have stated above mucho better towing!

[Dayle1]

Originally Posted by frosty42

You would be surprised how many people in my area who have a diesel and do not pull a thing.

That is their choice to make for whatever reason and they live with the consequence. I would not drive a diesel truck if I didn't need to tow.

[rvscooter]

I don't know if it's true but a salesman told me the only difference between the F250 and F350 was one extra leaf spring. the drive train is exactly the same.