Need insight towing an ST270bh with an Armada

Aireggers · 06-28-2014, 10:24 PM

Hi there! I'm new to the site so thanks for reading. My family and I are looking to upgrade our Starcraft 207rb hybrid TT (4200lbs and 23') to a Sunset trail st270bh (5600lbs and 30'). We have an 2011 Nissan Armada with an Equalizer weight/sway system. The tow rating on a Nissan Armada is 8500lbs. I feel the Armada will tow it just fine but the wife is skeptical, lol. The dealer seemed to think towing it was a non-issue as well, but he's also trying to sell a trailer, lol. Any towing capability insight you may have would be greatly appreciated in aiding her/our decision to buy or not. Thanks again for reading this thread! I really look forward to hearing what you might have to say so I can calm the better half and we can proceed towards a possible purchase

Crossroad owner 'want to be'

**DavisK** · 06-28-2014, 11:17 PM

Welcome to the forum. I believe you should listen to your wife. Your Armada only has a 900 lb. hitch weight capacity when using a WDH, and I think that trailer (with battery, propane and a little gear) and your hitch will exceed that limit. That's also an awfully long trailer for a short wheelbase vehicle.

anaro · 06-28-2014, 11:49 PM

So here is my experience towing a very similar trailer with a 2004 armada le. We towed our Zinger 26BL with the armada. Our floor plan was very similar to yours. It was 30' long and weighed 5980 dry according to the yellow sticker on the door. Last loaded weight on the zinger per scales was just over 7300 lbs for our family of 3. (Trailer gvwr was 7700 lbs). Our loaded tongue weight was close to 1000 lbs. Our armada was rated to tow 9100 lbs. The weak link was we only had 810 lbs of available payload and the hitch was only rated for 910 lbs tongue weight. Also the short wheelbase is your enemy with a longer trailer.

We had a very white knuckle towing experience. Every car, truck, and suv that passed us would push us all over the road. The trailer would give us the tail wagging the dog feeling. We tried everything. We had a reese dual cam wdh, we upgraded to E rated LT tires (armadas have a softer p rated tire on them), prodigy P3 brake controller, and the list goes on. We struggled going up the mountains (7% grades). The final straw came when we got pushed down Afton mountain (7% grade on a 2 lane twisting road). This was with using everything I had learned in 20 yrs of towing horses. Pumping brakes, using lower gears and trying to use more truck brakes did not help us. While you might have enough truck to pull it, I don't think you have enough truck to control it or stop it.

To find out what you can really tow. Weigh your armada with a full tank of fuel, and all occupants, pets and gear that will be in it while towing. Subtract the scaled weight of the armada from its gcwr to get your adjusted towing capacity. Subtract the scaled weight from its gcwr to get your available payload. Your loaded tongue weight will need to be lower than this number.

Keep in mind you will not be towing a dry or unloaded trailer. Do you know how much weight you have added to your hybrid? If not then go by trailer gvwr for your calculations as this will give you worse case scenario. The st270bh has a gvwr of 7614. Worst case scenario for tongue weight would be 15% of gvwr. That would be 1142 lbs of tongue weight (this does not Include the weight of the very heavy wdh). Now let's look at what a more reasonable expectation might be. On average people tend to add 1000-1500 lbs of gear into a trailer. 5600 lbs + 1000 lbs= 6600 lbs loaded tt weight x 13% tongue weight = 858 lbs for your low tongue weight. If you do add 1500 lbs then this would be a loaded tt weight of 7100 lbs and a tongue weight range of 923-1065 lbs.

If you are not near a scale then look at the tire loading sticker inside the drivers door for "the weight of cargo and occupants should not exceed x lbs". This is your available payload before people, pets and gear etc. You can manually do some subtraction here. My guess is this number will end up being well below 1000 lbs.

A tip for setting up wdh with the armada suspension... back up to trailer and shut the armada off as soon as you drop the hitch on the ball, before your auto level kicks in. Do your measurements without the auto leveled kicked in. Adjust your hitch. This will give you a baseline but then go to scales for your final tweaking of the system. Your goal will be to return your front axle to as close to unloaded weight as possible without going heavier.

I hope this helps you some in your choices. Happy hunting.

Darrell · 06-29-2014, 07:13 AM

Both posts contain outstanding towing experience. Heed the detail, physics is not on your side should have to conduct any emergency maneuvers, or quick stops. I witnessed many instances of mismatched towing vehicles to their loads - and unfortunately, some were in the rhubarb or broke down on a steep incline. Two key things to take into consideration when towing; 1) The safety of your family; and 2) There are no do-overs" should you not choose wisely when matching a tow vehicle to a trailer. This is a decision point where "Go big or go home" (WRT to tow vehicle choice) applies. My humble 2.5 cents (inflation)!!!! Happy Camping - choose wisely young grasshopper.

Tre · 06-29-2014, 12:02 PM

I feel your pain, we too were worried we were maxing out our TV when we purchased our 300bh. I'm also rated to tow 8500 and TT dry is 6300. To our surprise the truck pulled it great and stopped it even better. But I have a 1200lb tongue weight cap.

The folks on here are great and are going to give you some really good information to think about. I was warned about payload which at the time wasn't a factor I was thinking about, but gave me some more numbers to play with. Some folks are going to tell you no way, others are going to say your going to be fine. I'm not telling you either, even though I think your fine, wait did I say that out loud? The best advice I got was, it's your decision. You obviously care or you wouldn't have asked. So I feel confident you will make the right decision to make sure you and your family are safe.

Yes your pushing your tongue weight. If this is the trailer for you, I would say watch your loading. T weight will creep up fast and it takes away from your payload. Pay attention to where your things are loaded in the trailer. Drive slow, take your time get a good brake controller, if your don't already have one.
If it's an option, being financially able to do a TV upgrade gives some peace of mind if your armadas capabilities become an issue.

Listen to what the folks here have to say, do the numbers and good luck with your decision!

Welcome to the forum.

Aireggers · 06-29-2014, 04:33 PM

Thanks so much for the insight. I guess there is a lot more to think about

. Does the fact of having the wide axles on the 270bh help or not much? We set a trailer weight limit of 5500 lbs which is where the 270 is at but was hoping the wide axle would help regarding the tow. The hitch weight is something we will have to consider more. Really would hate to go with a smaller trailer but safety is a huge factor........

anaro · 06-29-2014, 04:45 PM

My tt had the wide stance axles, it didn't help. Honestly, I think you need to be looking at a gvwr under 6000 not dry weight.

Tre · 06-29-2014, 07:45 PM

I was told the wide stance helps with stability. Its supposedly like your more stable with your feet further apart than together. I don't get blown around by trucks on the hwy but I don't know if that's due to my anderson hitch, wide stance or both. I really don't know if it helps, I've only had one TT and it has wide stance. I do think it makes tight turns hard on the hubs of the trailer, because they are further apart it seems they are being pulled against each other more when maneuvering in a tight spot. You can watch the hubs/axles flex, and I hate seeing that, but guess it's better than breaking.

**Lloyd** · 06-29-2014, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tre

I don't get blown around by trucks on the hwy but I don't know if that's due to my Anderson hitch, wide stance or both.

I think I would give all the credit to your Anderson hitch! They are one heck of a hitch.

Antares · 06-30-2014, 05:46 AM

I tow a 251BH that weighs 4900 dry with an Armada just fine. Anaro will disagree with me until the cows come home as to the suitability of the Armada as a tow vehicle. We generally tow pretty heavily loaded with at least half a tank of water and around 150lbs of firewood in the trailer. The Armada usually also has a 100lb tandem kayak sitting on top of it. We also don't have any sway control. None at all. Nothing.

My experience has been that towing has always been pleasurable. There were a couple times driving in high crosswinds close to Lake Erie where I wished I had sway control, but I was by no means being blown all over the road.

Hipockets · 06-30-2014, 09:24 AM

I have a ST270BH and a 2500 Suburban TV. I personally would not tow anything much heavier.

Its all up to you and what you're comfortable with.

Aireggers · 06-30-2014, 12:39 PM

Thanks again for the comments. It's also nice to hear from other Armada drivers. I know it's apples and oranges but we tow our Starcraft like it's not even back there. The Armada has been a great TV for us so far. I know the st270bh would add another 1200 pounds and 7' and I'm sure I would feel it back there unlike the Starcraft. We just need to figure out 'how much' I would feel it......numbers don't lie but it really comes down to being comfortable while towing it. Decisions decisions....

**Lloyd** · 06-30-2014, 01:45 PM

Why don't you ask the dealership if they will let you hook onto it and go for a test drive? On the highway of course.
It doesn't hurt to ask, and it will give you two answers.

1--How your TV handles it.
2--How sincere your dealer is.

OhioMark · 06-30-2014, 03:59 PM

Aireggers,

Feeling comfortable towing is very important. If you are "white knuckling" for any length of time and stressing out, it is no longer a "recreational" vehicle.

That said, if your over your legal limit for any part of the max limits set by your TV or trailer manufacturer...your over your legal limit and liable if heaven forbid your in any type of accident.

If you want to play with the numbers, I can PM you a handy tow calculator spreadsheet or you can download it here -->www.popthetop.com/files/TowingCapacityWorksheet.xls

I used it when I was trailer shopping and it helped me when dealers were telling me "No problem..you can tow it".

It's doesn't get into the rear vs front axle stuff, but was a good rule of thumb to apply when looking at capacities. It let's you play with the numbers to look at scenarios like "what if I don't carry an cargo in the camper and put in the truck", etc.

I could also show real numbers to my better half on how close we were to our max and convince here she'd have to leave the cast iron cookware at home and not fill the water tank if we brought mom-in-law

**DavisK** · 06-30-2014, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lloyd

I think I would give all the credit to your Anderson hitch! They are one heck of a hitch.

I would also give some credit to the fact that he is towing with a pickup with a longer wheelbase than an Armada. The longer wheelbase resists the side-to-side forces of the trailer better.

anaro · 06-30-2014, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavisK

I would also give some credit to the fact that he is towing with a pickup with a longer wheelbase than an Armada. The longer wheelbase resists the side-to-side forces of the trailer better.

I will second that. Towing a shorter 5000 lb two horse trailer was night and day to towing the 7000 lb 30' tt. Both were towed by the armada. I towed the horse traileR with a Durango and had similar problems that went away when I moved up to the armada. Moving up to a larger pick up made towing a breeze and enjoyable again.

ewbldavis · 06-30-2014, 06:39 PM

You are probably overwhelmed with the responses

Here is my unprofessional opinion:

Weight-wise you are good to go. The Armada's are decent SUV's, and even fully loaded you are under the 8500# rating by a safe margin (assuming proper equipment on the Armada).

Length is a concern. We had a 2012 Zinger 27BHSE, which is virtually identical in size to Antares 251BH. We towed it with our Chevy Trailblazer EXT 6cyl. The TB handled it very well...but anything larger was out of the question. I would fear tail wagging with the shorter wheelbase of an Armada.

Two things worth noting:

1.) The Zinger/251BH is only 28'-6" long. Adding 2-feet makes a difference.
2.) Our Trailblazer is an EXT. The 129" wheelbase certainly enabled good towing. I doubt I would have towed that trailer with a standard Trailblazer (114" WB).

If you feel very comfortable with the Armada, you could simply try a few short trips to test it out, but be prepared to purchase a new TV if you don't like it. If a new truck isn't in the cards, then consider that before you sign the line.

Aireggers · 07-01-2014, 09:38 AM

Great info everyone. Regarding the test tow, dealer would allow it, however to me it's not going to be a true test unless we can attach the weight/sway system and I'm not sure how that would work. I will play with the numbers worksheet once I get to a PC. Thanks for that. And yes, ewbldavis, info overload is on its way! Lol. It's all good though. Rather hear too much than none at all.

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