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Old 04-20-2017, 11:13 AM   #1
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Inquiring minds want to know!

Seems odd that in most European countries most all vehicles are diesel & get great mpg, while here unless you have heavy payloads they are the exception & then choke them down with all sorts of emissions crap. Inquiring minds want to know!
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:29 AM   #2
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Maybe this has something to do with it.
The 2017 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel Is Still Not For Sale, While It's Waiting For Emissions Certification - The Fast Lane Truck
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Old 04-20-2017, 12:12 PM   #3
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Lloyd hit it on the head...Right now diesel emissions seem to always be under the microscope in the US. As far as why there are not more diesel passenger vehicles...No one singular reason but from what I recently read, I would hazard to guess at the core of this conundrum is cost of the fuel after taxation...the fact that Uncle Sam has tax incentives in place on petroleum production and sale that results in diesel carrying a tax around 25% higher than that of gasoline vs European taxing authorities in the reverse taxing gasoline higher. Add that to supply/demand economics in the US and it makes gas more available and cheaper. Of course markets can fluctuate as we've seen the prices of gas to diesel increase and decrease at different rates. Just my opinion, but auto makers have to hedge their bets on what the public wants years in advance and betting on gas vehicle demand is a a no brainer given the tax structures.

Than there is the all powerful sparkplug manufacturing lobby in DC...just kidding.

BTW
I shamelessly stole these stats from a couple sources including an article in the Scientific American. -->https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...n-diesel-cars/
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:18 PM   #4
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Thanks for starting a new thread. Guess you also answered my question, GOVERNMENT!
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:23 PM   #5
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Thanks for starting a new thread. Guess you also answered my question, GOVERNMENT!
What does DEF actually do in a diesel engine...Does it burn.??? Does it help with fuel economy...NO exactly the opposite...
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Old 04-21-2017, 04:11 AM   #6
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Diesel Exhaust Fluid
Ammonia based liquid. Brakes down NOX into simple compounds.
Doesn't effect economy.
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:00 AM   #7
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Diesel Exhaust Fluid
Ammonia based liquid. Brakes down NOX into simple compounds.
Doesn't effect economy.


Yep, Urea and ionized water. Not to get too graphic but essential sterilized urine
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:57 AM   #8
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Sorry, maybe def does not affect mpg specifically, but all the epa crap certainly DOES affect mpg and power...

and imho, how does adding a less volatile liquid NOT affect both mpg and power? I did a quick search for the btu of def, but couldn't find it...

Having ridden around the middle east on motorcycles and wearing full sweater caps/masks pulled down over my face and SEEING the soot that collected on it over my mouth and nose - I can only be SO mad at the epa crap, but they need to 'justify their existence', so they go too far too often.


I do remember driving my first diesels way back when and diesel was always 20 to 30 cents cheaper than gas... not any more
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:50 PM   #9
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Thanks for starting a new thread. Guess you also answered my question, GOVERNMENT!
You nailed it....Government. The 700 pounds of emissions crap bolted on my truck does nothing to help me at all. Thankfully, I live in a non-emissions testing state so the minute my powertrain warranty expires my truck will shed some weight when I delete the DPF, SCR, DEF and EGR.

The latest emissions requirements on diesel trucks does nothing to assist with efficiency, HP, MPG or torque. The only thing it does is eliminate the soot smell and heavy particulates.
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Old 04-22-2017, 07:43 AM   #10
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The latest emissions requirements on diesel trucks does nothing to assist with efficiency, HP, MPG or torque. The only thing it does is eliminate the soot smell and heavy particulates.[/QUOTE]

Emission requirements are not meant to increase HP or torque they are meant to reduce emissions. While they do cause a lot of problems with the engines they have very much improved the soot, smell, and heavy particulates you mention.
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Old 04-22-2017, 08:43 AM   #11
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Sorry, maybe def does not affect mpg specifically, but all the epa crap certainly DOES affect mpg and power...

and imho, how does adding a less volatile liquid NOT affect both mpg and power? I did a quick search for the btu of def, but couldn't find it...
DEF is injected into the exhaust after the fuel is through the engine so it should not have any impact on mpg or power. It does add cost and maintenance. Other emissions like low sulfur fuels and EGR do have big effects on cost, and maintenance also.
The manufactures have been able to increase power and mpg's over the years but it dose increase cost. 30 years ago a semi going up a 8% grade would be belching black smoke doing 30 mph. Now they walk right up the hill with very little visible smoke.
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Old 04-23-2017, 03:34 PM   #12
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You nailed it....Government. The 700 pounds of emissions crap bolted on my truck does nothing to help me at all. Thankfully, I live in a non-emissions testing state so the minute my powertrain warranty expires my truck will shed some weight when I delete the DPF, SCR, DEF and EGR.

The latest emissions requirements on diesel trucks does nothing to assist with efficiency, HP, MPG or torque. The only thing it does is eliminate the soot smell and heavy particulates.
Why wait? I deleted with a RaceMe Ultra last summer at 78k.
Truck runs great now that it's not choking on its own exhaust.
I've since upgraded to WARP Tuning by Double R Diesel. Night and day over stock! Until I upgraded to 35" tires, I averaged 16 mpg city, 20 hwy.
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Old 04-23-2017, 09:07 PM   #13
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Until I upgraded to 35" tires, I averaged 16 mpg city, 20 hwy.
That's about what I get with mine, which is the way it came from the factory.
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Old 04-23-2017, 10:24 PM   #14
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That's about what I get with mine, which is the way it came from the factory.


True, but my engine is no longer breathing it's own farts anymore which will hopefully allow it to last for many many more moons.

My EGTs are down and I also now have custom transmission tuning.

I didn't buy a 8k pound truck with a Cummins to get exceptional fuel mileage, I bought it to last a million miles. At 89k in just under 6 years, I hope to be driving her for at least another 20 some years or pass it on to one of my grandkids to come.
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Old 04-24-2017, 10:51 PM   #15
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Why wait? I deleted with a RaceMe Ultra last summer at 78k.
Truck runs great now that it's not choking on its own exhaust.
I've since upgraded to WARP Tuning by Double R Diesel. Night and day over stock! Until I upgraded to 35" tires, I averaged 16 mpg city, 20 hwy.
Two reasons...the first is that I do not want to do it while I have any warranty left. Secondly, Our governor may try to back-door some form of emissions testing into the budget to cover road projects. There is some talk of doing this in order to avoid raising the fuel tax so if that happens, I do not want to be bolting everything back on! I'm in no hurry as the truck is running like a champ. I want to do it, but just cautiously being patient before I pull the trigger.
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:01 PM   #16
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Inquiring minds want to know!

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Two reasons...the first is that I do not want to do it while I have any warranty left. Secondly, Our governor may try to back-door some form of emissions testing into the budget to cover road projects. There is some talk of doing this in order to avoid raising the fuel tax so if that happens, I do not want to be bolting everything back on! I'm in no hurry as the truck is running like a champ. I want to do it, but just cautiously being patient before I pull the trigger.


COMPLETELY understand, but look into the forum igotacummins.com, lots of guys from PA running RaceMe tuners. Don't have to remove the EGR either, just unplug. I ran my EGR intact for 8 months before it "fell off"

I used Ray at doubler diesel.com for my custom tuning. Ray is awesome to work with, best customer service I've ever seen.


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