Engine tuner/programmer

[mark5w]

[WildWildWest]

Originally Posted by Darrell

I thought all Fords, GM, Ram diesel trucks were turbocharged?

All newer diesels are turbocharged. We were referring to gas engines in relation to supercharging. Turbochargers use exhaust gas to power the air compression (forced air induction) while super chargers run off a belt directly connected to the engine. Biggest difference is how fast they increase the air flow. Super chargers are nearly instantaneous while you will often hear talk of turbo lag because they take a little longer to spool up in order to force the air in. Reducing turbo lag has become a big thing in the last ten years and it has improved greatly.

[r2millers]

Yep, turbo lag has improved with several different ways. With mine, the unison ring helps to improve low end response with the variable vanes. Unfortunately, with more moving parts comes more problems.
When they stick, more dollars to fix.

[johnboytoo]

or twins like on the new ecoboosts, one to spool up quickly and one for the top end...

[Darrell]

4 years in diesel/electric submarines; owner of a diesel truck for 5 - I am quite familiar with the difference. However, your explanation provides a good overview for the less familiar!!!!!

Originally Posted by WildWildWest

All newer diesels are turbocharged. We were referring to gas engines in relation to supercharging. Turbochargers use exhaust gas to power the air compression (forced air induction) while super chargers run off a belt directly connected to the engine. Biggest difference is how fast they increase the air flow. Super chargers are nearly instantaneous while you will often hear talk of turbo lag because they take a little longer to spool up in order to force the air in. Reducing turbo lag has become a big thing in the last ten years and it has improved greatly.

[r2millers]

Originally Posted by Darrell

4 years in diesel/electric submarines; owner of a diesel truck for 5 - I am quite familiar with the difference. However, your explanation provides a good overview for the less familiar!!!!!

With all of that knowledge, I'm not sure you even needed to ask the question then.

[Darrell]

Originally Posted by r2millers

With all of that knowledge, I'm not sure you even needed to ask the question then.

I didn't want sarcasm to shine too brightly in my comment. It is an unfortunate character flaw of mine....

[jakesz28]

Originally Posted by J_unfred

This is not really a Crossroads question, but does anyone have experience with using an engine tuner/programmer in their tow vehicle? I have a 2007 Suburban 2500 with the 6.0 gas engine. I'm curious if they are worth the money.

I have tuned a few cars and on stock gas trucks I felt gains would be minimal. So I never touched my truck even though I had hp tuners. My truck has had some spark knock while towing if I had 87 octane in it. So I always put 89 to 91 in it before towing.
I finally scanned/data logged my 2006 2500hd with the 6.0. Wow what was GM thinking with these trucks. They left a lot on the table. Found the reason for the spark knock. Was at 5000 rpm, 80% throttle, and 84 to 86 kpa. The ecm was still in closed loop and asking for 14.681 afr. WOW! I guess with the higher octane gas the 8* of timing the ecm could pull was trying to save the motor and kill all the power.
I made some adjustments to reduce torque management, but the main change was to make the truck go into power enrichment mode. Go for another ride, what a difference the richer afr ratio makes. You make max torque around 12.6 and max power somewhere around 13.2 to 1.
A few people with GM 6.0's have claimed to make between 30 and 50 hp. I thought that would not be true. Now I can see why on GM gas trucks this might be possible.
I bet the milage goes up when the motor makes power and is happy compared to pulling timing and pinging.

[drcook]

You can check into EFI Live and folks that can program for such. EFI Live lets you tweak the tables the computer is using for optimum performance. If I had not invested in some Banks products (I was given a package deal) I would have looked into EFI Live for tuning my Duramax.

In an of itself, the product is not for someone just to get into the CPU and have at it. You do have to understand what you are doing. There are plenty of folks around that do.

But there is no magic wand for any of our motors to get another 10 mpg.

http://www.efilive.com/

[r2millers]

Originally Posted by johnboytoo

or twins like on the new ecoboosts, one to spool up quickly and one for the top end...

Maybe a little confusion here. Ford uses twin, parallel turbos on their Ecoboost engine, not sequential turbos.
The turbos are identical, one on each side, powering up 3 cylinders each.
Both spool identically, not differently as noted above.

[Jerry Pinkard]

Originally Posted by WildWildWest

Last four trucks I have owned have all been tuned. Power increases can be had, but actual fuel economy increases are limited unless you want to do more than just tune. The vehicles need to breathe better (high flow intake) and exhale better (high flow exhaust and cat delete) in order to see any real fuel economy gains and then, it is only really noticed unloaded (not towing). Power will increase and that helps towing but doesn't necessarily improve fuel economy. For gas engines, the real power gains come from proper tuning for premium unleaded fuel so expect your fuel costs to go up - roughly offsets the better mileage. I have always tuned for power, not just mileage, but in the process the additional torque can improve your fuel economy while towing.

Now, for my current diesel, I have seen significant gains in both fuel economy and power, but not without some significant expense. I am currently custom off road tuned H&S MiniMaxx Race Tuner (4 power levels, switch on the fly), DPF deleted, DEF deleted, EGR deleted, S&B Intake, FloPro 4" dual exhaust, etc. on my 2011 Ford 6.7 diesel. Stock, my truck was 400hp /800ft/lb torque. Tuned, I'm running 500hp / 925ft/lb torque. I get 21mpg unloaded and over 12-13mpg towing but I have loads of power to spare!! This type of mod cost over $3,000 just for components (I did all the work myself, so no labor) and doesn't include the additional cost of my 50 gallon Titan Fuel tank (mounts in place of stock tank), my wireless air, heavy duty compressor, air bags and several other modifications. About another $3,000 worth over the tuning and delete. Keep in mind, I put close to 30,000 miles per year on my truck, usually 6,000 to 8,000 of that is towing. So my fuel economy gains pay for themselves in about 1 year. The fun factor doesn't hurt when I can accelerate faster than most sports cars from a dead stop!! (In an 8,300lb truck!)

So, for the average person, is tuning advantageous? More so with a diesel, but you can get some modest gains on a gas truck with a tuner, intake and exhaust for a cost of about $1,200 to $1,500 total if you do the work yourself. But be prepared to use only premium gasoline to see any significant results and that higher cost of fuel will outweigh the gains unless you drive a lot of miles per year. My gas trucks usually gained about 60hp and 75ft/lb torque with the tuner, intake and exhaust. If you don't put on the miles, a tuner won't make any real difference by itself. Just my opinion, but I do have experience with both Ford and GM diesel and gas trucks with this.

Wild,
In a situation when you are towing, do you think the drive train can handle the application of all that torque? It seems you could overtorgue the tranny, driveshaft, rear end,,etc. Do you know the torque limits of the drive train?

[longhauler]

I have a smarty on mine. When I had it set on towing mode I would get a jerking with the cruise on when going up a slight grade like an overpass. I turned it down to the lowest setting and I haven't had that problem. I'm guessing the torque converter was cutting in and out, but whatever it was the truck didn't like it.

[WildWildWest]

Originally Posted by Jerry Pinkard

Wild,
In a situation when you are towing, do you think the drive train can handle the application of all that torque? It seems you could overtorgue the tranny, driveshaft, rear end,,etc. Do you know the torque limits of the drive train?

Towing with gas trucks at performance level tunes I've never had a problem with the transmissions. Drive trains in the trucks that I have owned have been designed for higher forces, for example my gas 3/4 ton had the same transmission as the diesel so was designed to handle significantly more horsepower and torque. The increase is not that significant from tuning. If the drive train can't handle a 20% increase, there's something wrong - or you own a Dodge!

I tow on the stock power setting with my current diesel truck, not because the drive train can't handle it, but because the high performance tunes aren't designed for towing. In testing, the tranny slipped at 850 hp and 1,300 ft/lbs of torque on the Ford 6.7L, pretty big increase from the stock 400/800.

[Jerry Pinkard]

Originally Posted by WildWildWest

Towing with gas trucks at performance level tunes I've never had a problem with the transmissions. Drive trains in the trucks that I have owned have been designed for higher forces, for example my gas 3/4 ton had the same transmission as the diesel so was designed to handle significantly more horsepower and torque. The increase is not that significant from tuning. If the drive train can't handle a 20% increase, there's something wrong - or you own a Dodge!

I tow on the stock power setting with my current diesel truck, not because the drive train can't handle it, but because the high performance tunes aren't designed for towing. In testing, the tranny slipped at 850 hp and 1,300 ft/lbs of torque on the Ford 6.7L, pretty big increase from the stock 400/800.

Thanks.

[wardvoia]

Don't tell me I'm the only one to notice that this thread is over run with Ford owners.

Simple question.....Are they the brand that needs the most tuning to perform as expected?

[mark5w]

Originally Posted by wardvoia

Don't tell me I'm the only one to notice that this thread is over run with Ford owners.

Simple question.....Are they the brand that needs the most tuning to perform as expected?

There's other brands???????

[johnboytoo]

re brands.... It's simple math...

say 2% of owners WANT to upgrade
(at 400/800 stock I don't need to)
if more overall owners then more MAY want the upgrades....
and which brand has more trucks on the road ?
http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...eating-ou.aspx


and thanks for the correction on the ecoboost being identical twins - hadn't researched it, just know it works (at least in a 13 explorer sport )

[tramguage1]

I love my 13 Serria CC 4X4, 100% stock D-Max. I get 17.5 to 18.5 everyday driving , 20 to21 empty highway and 10 towing my 32 ft. 5er. I can run as fast as I want towing, so far tow anything I hook up to it. I have learned that the easyer it is on my tow vehicle the less stress it is on me. The less stress the more I enjoy traveling.

[longhauler]

[QUOTE=tramguage1;87724]I love my 13 Serria CC 4X4, 100% stock D-Max. I get 17.5 to 18.5 everyday driving , 20 to21 empty highway and 10 towing my 32 ft. 5er. I can run as fast as I want towing, so far tow anything I hook up to it. I have learned that the easyer it is on my tow vehicle the less stress it is on me. The less stress the more I enjoy traveling.[/QU

What rear end do you have, that's pretty good mileage. I only get around 17 empty with my 2011 RAM, but I also have a 4.10 rear end, so Im sure that is part of it.

[tramguage1]

3.73 ratio. 24,500 GCWR Also those milage numbers are with a calculator not from the on board readings. I have found the vehicles calculations to be consistent ly 1/2 a mpg better than actual.