Tire Pressure Monitoring systems

[travelin texans]

Never had an issue with lack of signal with TST, even when I get a low battery warning all 10 still have signal & no booster
required.

[woodwalker]

My tire minder came with a booster that I mounted in the battery compartment. They worked without it but I figured instead of throwing it out i may as well mount it. The first time it saved me I adjusted the pressure in the tires the evening before leaving. Pulled out at 6 am and 5 miles down the road it went off. Came to find that the nut holding the valve stem in place had backed off causing the tire to start leaking. The other part of them is when you look at a 100 psi tire it looks the same whether it has 50 or 100 psi in it they give fairly accurate psi and temp

[Dayle1]

Originally Posted by rcflyer

The big issue I have with the TST is the 1 hr time before it will notify you of a loss of signal.

You may be right about 1 hr, I've never checked it, but then the probability of loosing signal on a single tire and that same tire failing within 60 min. is pretty low.

I will add this, having had both external and internal sensors I can say that external sensors are pretty useless when it comes to temperature readings. Therefore they are unlikely to provide any help when it comes to detecting other issues like hot bearings or dragging brake shoes. I've had internal sensors on my fiver for 3-1/2 yrs now and the diesel exhaust from 20 ft away raises the temps inside the curb side trailer tires by 6-10 degrees above the street side tires. Previously with external sensors the temps were more influenced by sunshine or wind direction than by anything actually happening with the tire/wheel.

[rcflyer]

We are missing the point about loss of signal.

If the TST gets at least one signal within one hour it will display that pressure reading for one hour.

Example the TST sensor sends a signal once every 5 minutes. So in one hour it sends about 12 signals per hour. Lets say you have a monitor that is marginal in signal strength and manages to get one signal to the receiver at least once per hour.

Then for most of the time you do not have protection and will never know it.

[Dayle1]

That only means that the display values may not be the most recent data. If there is a sudden loss of pressure it alarms immediately, within a second or two. So, in your example the sensor would have to loose signal for 60 min on THE tire that was going to fail in that same 60 min. I've got probably 600 hrs towing with TST with one alarm and two known signal losses

[travelin texans]

I must have a different model or something as the temps & pressure appear to change regularly, no hour delay!! If your temps are affect by the truck exhaust I'd be checking bearings or brakes, there's a 100 different things that would affect the temp, but IMO exhaust would not be one of them, or maybe some stacks on your truck.

[Dayle1]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

If your temps are affect by the truck exhaust I'd be checking bearings or brakes, there's a 100 different things that would affect the temp, but IMO exhaust would not be one of them, or maybe some stacks on your truck.

Again, external temp sensors are pretty worthless. Tire temperature info is obtained via conduction thru the valve stem, meanwhile the sensor is rotating thru the outside air at 600 rpm. Kind of like holding the wrong end of a thermometer in your hand, sticking the bulb in front of a fan and then trying to determine if you are running a fever. The effects of sun and wind are far more dominate than tire temp, bearings or brakes.

If you haven't used internal sensors then you probably don't realize the difference. I am 100% convinced that internal sensors provide more meaningful temperature data. That is why I mentioned the effect of diesel exhaust. Yes it is real but 6-10 degrees higher temps is not a big concern. I did some research and there are cases of diesel exhaust, especially during regen, actually melting trailer exterior plastic parts. So, I do pay attention to the plastic corner on my Cruiser. However, adding stacks is not a solution as that would put hot exhaust even closer to the trailer, at the front cap, clearance lights, decals and rain gutter.

Originally Posted by travelin texans

I must have a different model or something as the temps & pressure appear to change regularly, no hour delay!!

Yes it changes regularly, according to TST, the sensors transmit about every 2 min. But, maybe you misunderstand 'RCFLYER' point. In the event of a signal loss, the display will continue to show "old" data, no 2 min. updates. This is ez to see, just unhook from the trailer, drive about 1/4 mi and see how long the display continues to show 'data' for the trailer sensors.

[rcflyer]

When it comes to TPMS systems and in particular the TST system there is a lot of misinformation and understanding how the systems work.



This is from a TST manual.

Instantaneous reading of a tire problem will not happen. As stated the monitors detect the pressure every 6 seconds. Thus a rapid loss of pressure can take 6 seconds before the data is sent to the monitor. I have noticed this when I have adjusted pressures on my TST system. At 60 mph that means you have gone about 1/10 of a mile before a pressure loss alarm will be received.

Routine pressure updates are only sent to the monitor every 5 minutes.

A loss of signal alarm will not be displayed by the monitor until it has not received a routine update for one hour.

If you have ever received a loss of signal alarm that means you did not have protection from that sensor for the previous hour. As such your system is not very reliable.

I also have found the temperature of the tire on the TST is worthless. The typical readings I get when going down the highway at 60 mph is within 5 degrees of ambient. My infrared meter shows actual tire temperatures way above ambient after 10 miles or so.

[Dayle1]

Originally Posted by rcflyer

We are missing the point about loss of signal.

If the TST gets at least one signal within one hour it will display that pressure reading for one hour.

Example the TST sensor sends a signal once every 5 minutes. So in one hour it sends about 12 signals per hour. Lets say you have a monitor that is marginal in signal strength and manages to get one signal to the receiver at least once per hour.

Then for most of the time you do not have protection and will never know it.

You are right, sort of. TST says it transmits every 2 min. IF a sensor transmitted just once each hr AND the driver doesn't notice, there is no protection for that tire. I don't know the probability of repeating intermittent signal loss. But using my data of 1 tire event and 2 signal losses in excess of 60 min in 30 K miles, the probillity of both events occurring at the same time and on the same tire is greater than 1 in 20 million

[Dayle1]

Originally Posted by rcflyer

. Thus a rapid loss of pressure can take 6 seconds before the data is sent to the monitor.. At 60 mph that means you have gone about 1/10 of a mile before a pressure loss alarm.

Or it will alarm in 0 seconds. Statically it will happen in 3 seconds and any monitor system will have some delay, with limited battery power sampling at nanosecond intervals isn't too practical.

[travelin texans]

Wow! This got way technical! All I know is mine works for me, saved me a couple times in the last 3 years by notifying me of an issue, & I can change the batteries easily, & that's exactly what I was wanting.

[Lloyd]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Wow! This got way technical! All I know is mine works for me, saved me a couple times in the last 3 years by notifying me of an issue, & I can change the batteries easily, & that's exactly what I was wanting.

You are SO correct.
I say thumbs up to our members who are so knowledgeable and who share their knowledge so freely and readily.
Way to go guys.

[Dayle1]

Originally Posted by Labbie

I was looking at one the other night that looked interesting google Fobo bluetooth tire monitoring. Looks like it can do pressure and temperature.

It is not for RVs, pressure limited to 87 psi max, can only monitor 4 tires, signal too weak to work on towed vehicle and no provision for a booster. By the way, sense interval is every 8 seconds

[Dayle1]

Now, what is the sample rate for other tpms brands?

Pressure Pro, 7 seconds
Tire Minder, 6 seconds
Doran, 12 seconds (implied but not stated)

So, for acceptable battery life it seems no one checks tire pressure more frequently than every 6 seconds.

[Lloyd]

I see that an extra item is needed for internal sensors if one has steel rims instead of aluminum. Any body know if the steel rims affect performance of the sensor negatively in comparison to the aluminum?.

[Dayle1]

Originally Posted by Lloyd

I see that an extra item is needed for internal sensors if one has steel rims instead of aluminum. Any body know if the steel rims affect performance of the sensor negatively in comparison to the aluminum?.

Doubt there is a performance diff. Maybe to isolate dissimilar metals to prevent galvanic corrosion?

[woodwalker]

You know it is amazing how in this day and age everyone is infatuated with the newest gagett or gizmo and has every one in a tither. In the old days we aired up the tires hit them with a hammer or whatever every once in a while to see if they still had air in them. Same as everything can't live without cell phone laptop etc. Life was so much similar back then

[Lloyd]

Originally Posted by Dayle1

Doubt there is a performance diff. Maybe to isolate dissimilar metals to prevent galvanic corrosion?

Kind of what I thought, but wasn't sure.
Thanks Larry

Originally Posted by woodwalker

You know it is amazing how in this day and age everyone is infatuated with the newest gagett or gizmo and has every one in a tither. In the old days we aired up the tires hit them with a hammer or whatever every once in a while to see if they still had air in them. Same as everything can't live without cell phone laptop etc. Life was so much similar back then

Yeh, but aren't they all great?
I remember all those days of long ago to.
In fact I still carry a club behind the seat of the truck that on occasion I get out with and walk around everything and give each tire a wack.

[matherne]

I asked them about the one hour delay. here was there response:


Ournew systems, the TireMinder TM66 and A1A, will send a signal loss alert after 1hour of the transmitters not checking in with the monitor. Both monitors areupdated versions of our original TMG400C. The TMG400C had its last year ofproduction in 2014 and has been in production since 2008.



Pleasenote, if the battery were nearing its end of life, the sensor would alert tolow battery. A good example of when a signal loss alert is needed would be whena transmitter has gone inactive while in storage. Both the A1A and TM66monitors include an "Auto-Search" feature which removes the previoustire readings (pressure and temperatures) and then actively searches for newreadings from the transmitters. If a transmitter does not check in with themonitor after 20 minutes, an alert is displayed with the issue tire in view. Werecommend using this feature any time the monitor was turned off or goneinactive for a good amount of time, such as before leaving a RV Park. The"Auto-Search" feature is a great tool to help make sure all of yourtransmitters are working and are able to easily communicate with the TireMindermonitor.



Oneway that the signal loss alert would help is if a wheel fell off whiletraveling. Regardless of whether you receive the signal loss alert in 15minutes or 1 hour, it's still a long time to be travelling without a wheel.Please remember, none of the systems use a persistent connection, but rather anupdate cycle to a monitor at a pre-programmed interval (ours is 4 minutes if noissue has occurred). As such, you will always be vulnerable if something likethe above scenario occurred. Even the best TPMS cannot prevent all issues fromoccurring, but are a great way to avoid tire pressure and temperature relatedissues.



Onelast thing I would like to not is, all of our systems include a signal booster.We do not want our users to "wait and see" if they need a signalbooster or not, we just include it. Also, our booster is not as much toincrease distance, as it is to avoid signal interference. With the signalbooster is installed, TireMinder TPMS users can feel safe that the system hasall the necessary precautions to avoid signal interference on the first trip.



Ifyou have any other questions, please let me know.



Thanksand Best Regards,




Mike

andThe Minder Team

[matherne]

Originally Posted by woodwalker

You know it is amazing how in this day and age everyone is infatuated with the newest gagett or gizmo and has every one in a tither. In the old days we aired up the tires hit them with a hammer or whatever every once in a while to see if they still had air in them. Same as everything can't live without cell phone laptop etc. Life was so much similar back then

AMEN to that! I don't even know if I had enough of a tow vehicle on my first trailer back in the 90's. didn't know I had to check. I had a Toyota 4 runner. Thought I could pull anything! No wonder I ended up in somewhere in Alabama with a bad bearing and only a pliers and screwdriver to chisel off the melted inside race of the bearing!