Ideas for improving quality

[LeBo]

X2 campingcpl I couldn't have said it better!

[anaro]

Honestly, there needs to be accountability for actions. This means that the worker is accountable for distractions. This means that the foreman is accountable for the workers actions. Management is accountable for the line foreman and do on up the chain. Bonuses need to be paid or withheld not only based on number of units produced but the number of new units with issues. Goals need to be set higher for standards of production (ie what is acceptable coming off the line). To help increase moral, things should be done with the employees, i.e. a catered lunch for the line with the least reported problematic units each month or quarter. Also, an idea for the factory rally comes from something Forest River provides. Forest River takes its factory workers to the factory rally and has them repair units free of charge to owners despite warranty status. In doing so, they not only stand behind their product and make owners happy but they allow the factory workers to get to know their customer and see how their product is enjoyed. They also get to see the pride the owners take in something they as workers built.

[Loneoak]

Originally Posted by Lloyd

I would suggest you print out these posts that have and will continue to be added to this thread. If Andy happens to be in the same frame of mind when you see him, give him a copy to read.

As far as his comment--- "If I could only find a way to make them care".
Tell him to quit blaming the help! The buck stops at the top! Always has, and always will!

There have been some very good posts on this thread from a bunch of owners who like their RV but if things don't continue to improve, they will be pulling a different brand on the next go around.

I have been copying and pasting them all into a Word document. When I am done, I will edit the document and distill it down to make it less like a book and more readable.

[mike06081969]

Personally, when it comes to buying a new RV, I would gladly pay 5 to 10 thousand more for an apples-to-apples RV that has a reputation for high quality. The peace of mind of being able to go camping without the hassle of quality issues would be worth the cost.

[Wingchop]

I also wouldn't have a problem with spending more for a trailer that was built to a higher standard. Unfortunately, I'm looking at other manufacturers at this point to satisfy that requirement.

This company appears to be in a downward spiral, poor sales means cost cutting which produces poorer sales and so on.

Instead of cutting back on your warranty, how about living up to the old ones and not causing such push back when things break. Current owners should be treated like future buyers. If you live up to your shortfalls the current owners become more satisfied and just as importantly, you can quantify your costs for poor standards.

Have your supply chain push quality down to your suppliers, they are letting you down (axels?)

Have you measured what your costs are for poor quality?

[LeBo]

After working for 25 years in quality for the Donaldson Company (Designe and Verification Group) I'm convinced that building quality is more cost affective on the bottom line in the long run then the short sightedness of all RV Manufacturers!. I may be wrong but I think I read some where that "Quality is Free!" If they build it I will come and so will others

[Chateau Duke To Go]

The entire industry has issues in every area. You guys have made good points about improving workmanship. It seems some assembly line workers need training. Next is the quality of some of the materials. I look at some of the things they use and shake my head in disbelief. They need to streamline the warranty process and make it more like the auto industry where the dealer is required to do work on a crossroads product sold by any dealer. They need to REQUIRE the highest level of character and integrity in their dealer network. That "we can't control the dealer" excuse is nonsense. My advise to Andy would be to get completely outside the box and look at other manufacturing be it automotive, electronics or heavy machinery to see what they do.

[LeBo]

Wow! X2

[mike06081969]

Originally Posted by Wingchop

I also wouldn't have a problem with spending more for a trailer that was built to a higher standard. Unfortunately, I'm looking at other manufacturers at this point to satisfy that requirement.

This company appears to be in a downward spiral, poor sales means cost cutting which produces poorer sales and so on.

Instead of cutting back on your warranty, how about living up to the old ones and not causing such push back when things break. Current owners should be treated like future buyers. If you live up to your shortfalls the current owners become more satisfied and just as importantly, you can quantify your costs for poor standards.

Have your supply chain push quality down to your suppliers, they are letting you down (axels?)

Have you measured what your costs are for poor quality?

"Current owners should be treated like future buyers." That's it in a nutshell right there. Give your customer a good product, and then treat them like you want them to come back to you when they're ready for another one.

[johnboytoo]

Proven over and over AGAIN that if you give someone a good FIRST product, they come back more and more....
give them issues and they NEVER come back...

I bought a top of the line (at the time) Pontiac Grand Prix....
and returned it with a buy back within 3 months their were so many issues... will NOT buy another gm product...

Now, have never had a problem (that I didn't create or was not fixed under warranty) with a ford product, so guess where I bought the last 4 cars/trucks in the last 2 years ?

[Chateau Duke To Go]

Here is the text of an email I sent to Andy Cripe in November 2014 with suggestions for improvement. I never heard back so please include the parts you deem appropriate in your discussions with him.




Mr. Cripe,


We received our unit back from repair yesterday. The slide works better than it ever did… including during our original delivery orientation. Immediately apparent is a better fit and seal when the slide is closed. I would like to express my appreciation to Angie Cox for shepherding this issue through to resolution. Her responsiveness, attention to detail and orientation to customer service were exemplary. Unfortunately, these qualities are lacking in the RV industry across the board. She had to overcome some challenges internally from other Crossroads staff members who derailed things by not following through or by giving my service center information contrary to her direction. But in every instance, Ms. Cox addressed these challenges and took appropriate corrective action within hours if not minutes and got things back on track. Her performance is impressive, remarkable, and extraordinary.


Everyone involved in RV’ing will say that they love the freedom to travel and vacation, to take their pets along, and to detach from the everyday world be it for long weekends or extended trips. Unfortunately, most RV’ers also will tell you that the purchasing and service experience can be best described as nightmarish. Good dealers are few and far between. Reviewing your “Crossroads Family Forum”, various Facebook groups, or other forums will produce example after example baring this out. I know that Crossroads, Thor and all the other manufacturers will say that the dealers are independent and you have no control over them. However, the dealers, both good and bad, are perceived by the consumer to be the face of Crossroads and the voice of Crossroads. Therefore, you indeed have a vested interest in making sure they represent and perpetuate your brand and reputation as positively as possible.


A number of Crossroads owners have been very complementary of the service they received at the factory in Indiana. However, it is not practical for all customers to travel to Indiana for service. I have a suggestion. Take all the business acumen that make the service experience at the factory positive and apply them to the establishment of “Regional Factory Service Centers”. The Regional Factory Service Centers could be operated either by Crossroads or by Thor to service all of their brands and thereby achieve economies of scale and cost savings across the various brands. They could be factory owned or a joint venture with selected, vetted, and trusted dealers who have strict guidelines regarding service, business acumen, dedication to the customer, highest ethics, and certification of their technicians. In return, you could offer these service centers streamlined parts and warranty approval processes more akin to what is seen in the automotive industry. You could market these Factory Service Centers as value added to those purchasing your products. I believe your consumers would travel to these regional centers if they are assured the highest level of customer service. For example, I took my unit 3 hours away to get my issue repaired only because the technician that worked on it has a very good reputation.


Thank you for your time. Again thank you to Ms. Cox.








John Duke

[LeBo]

Thank you very much! X2

[sleepyT]

Originally Posted by Loneoak

When we were talking to Andy Cripe (president of Crossroads) the subject of quality came up. Andy is working hard to try to improve the quality of the product, and lamented (about the workers) "If I could only find a way to make them care".

If anyone has any suggestions or ideas to add to the list, that would be great.

If Andy said, "if I could only find a way to make them care" about his workers CR needs to get a new president...Because that is a LOT OF BULL and a total COP OUT...How about first thing is FIRE all those bean counters that have the line moving too fast...If the company won't let you do your job well because you don't have the TIME TO DO IT WELL, is that the workers fault...If I was a worker at CR and read the comment he made about his workers I would challenge him to step out on the floor and SHOW me how to do a high quaility job in the given time...

So don't waste your time making a list because Andy already knows why the quaility isn't as good as it could be, and that is the BOTTOM LINE....MOOOO MONEY... IMHO...

[Loneoak]

Apparently the workers can go home when their work is done for the day. This is an incentive to do fast work, not good work. If this is true, then this needs to be changed.

[sleepyT]

Loneoak
First of all, as far as I am concerned incentive plans do NOT work...Once you implement an incentive it is hard to take it away if it does not work for the betterment of the product...Also all personel impacted by the incentive seen to find a way to bend it to their advantage rather than the betterment of the product...Your reward for doing your job is your paycheck.....

As far as the quality issue is concerned CR has already addressed that issue a little more than a year ago when they reduced the factory warranty from a TWO YEAR WARRANTY to ONE YEAR WARRANTY....

I have made this statement before on another thread and beleive it to be true....If you spend a 100,000 dollars or more on an RV you will get a High Quality product, and even then there could be bugs that need to be ironed out...For all of us on this forum and with RV's that cost less than the above mentioned figure, we are getting the best quality that the factory worker can give us for the alotted time they have to complete their job...Again IMHO....

[campingcpl]

Originally Posted by Loneoak

Apparently the workers can go home when their work is done for the day. This is an incentive to do fast work, not good work. If this is true, then this needs to be changed.

The people that I know that work in production at these RV factories get peace rate. They have X amount of units that they are required to do in a days time. So if they get the X amount of units done in say 5 hours they go home and still make a full days wages. They are just told to get them done it's up to them to determine how fast they do it. Personally I'd love to have a job I could leave as soon as I am done with my work and still get paid for a full days work. I don't think I could say "oh no, I want to stay 8 plus hours at my job because I like working all the hours." I stay at my job 8 hours a day because I have to not because I want to.

[sleepyT]

Phil
That is exactly my point...If you are correct that workers are allowed to go home when they finish their asigned work instead of haveing to work and eight hour day, by implementing that program the COMPANY has insured high production, and also insured LOW Quality....The incentive in this case is production...So Andy Cripe saying his workers don't care is not true...They do care, they care about going home in six or seven hours instead of eight hours....If I as a worker am installing a Pix water line from the back of the unit to the front of the unit, and I kink that line, with the incentive being on production, am I going to replace that line, or just straighten it out and hope for the best....

So I repeat...Incentives don't work...piece work No good...8Hrs. work for 8 Hrs. pay....Higher quality product...

[drcook]

It seems as though a lot of focus is on the workers here. Unless it starts at the top, and is mandated down through the ranks, it doesn't matter how much you beat on the guy at the bottom, they still have lower quality / inferior materials to work with and absolutely no incentive to do a better job. Why should they ? Nothing they can do is going to make it any better. If they slow down and try to build a better product they get "dealt with". The whole bad attitude, who cares is very contagious and it is management that starts the infection. Having worked on both sides of the aisle, in lots of diverse industries, I have seen it over and over.

The idea of production at any costs come from the MBA's whose sole focus is ROI (return on investment) and share-holder-value. Too much focus on those 2 points have killed lots of companies. They get into a death spiral and simply cannot pull out.

As far as the workers, it is the MBA's who hire the cheapest workers they can find. Cheap workers, cheap materials, cheap on time all all up to a cheap product with lots of defects.

At one major bank I worked at, we all listened in to a meeting that was being held on the divestment of one of the divisions. (I supported an IT system that managed 61 billion dollars, it was not small things we were involved in) The MBA idiot spokesman was laughing during the meeting and flat out stated they could not have done anything to prevent it as the company simply didn't invest any money into that area, so get over it.

During another one of the meetings, a reporter from Albany NY was given the passcode to listen and reported on the bull. Of course after it hit the paper, people were threatened with termination if anyone divulged any more information out.

The only way to get rid of the attitudes is to start at the top and clean house. Think about the "GM nod" and the "GM salute". That was all white collar folks.

ROI and share-holder-value drive the market now. If a company doesn't produce enough profit, it is not around for long, the same as producting too many inferior products drives away customers thus reducing profit and further cuts to try and shore up profit.

Over all it is a very vicious cycle that takes a company wide commitment to do whatever it takes, no matter what the pain to the company to pull out of.

On the converse side, the company has to be willing to share the reward. There is absolutely no incentive to do any better if only the folks at the top are getting the extra dollars. Job satisfaction doesn't cut it when you see someone else reaping millions and all you get is "can you do better".

Unfortunately, the ones at the top can't seem to stand in front of that silvery colored glass and point their finger at the problem.

At least this is my opinion after spending 30 some years working in various industries here in the rust belt, lots of which no longer exist.

Sorry for the bad attitude and raining on the parade, but it is a result of too much experience.

[johnboytoo]

DrCook,
since when is being truthful and a realist a bad attitude ?!?

If you give something for nothing you get nothing ...
be it mfg'ing, welfare, whatever !

[drcook]

Originally Posted by johnboytoo

DrCook,
since when is being truthful and a realist a bad attitude ?!?

If you give something for nothing you get nothing ...
be it mfg'ing, welfare, whatever !

Sorry, I deleted my post. Johnboytoo was referring to a long disertation where I got up on my soapbox. I have been trying to avoid that lately. :-)

I have a bad attitude about businesses that have been run into the ground because of too much focus on profit and not enough on customer satisfaction, product quality and employee satisfaction and monetary reward for all.