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Old 07-08-2011, 04:59 AM   #1
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Hello everyone,

I am a first time poster, but l have been reading the postings on this site for a little while.
My question is, has anyone upgraded the electrical panel in their camper? I have the 30 amp 120 volt factory installed unit, which hasn't caused me any problems but....... being an electrician I would like to install a WFCO 8930/50n electrical panel. I would really feel more comfortable with an electrical panel with the capability of 240 volt.

Almost forgot to mention I'm talking about a 2005 cruiser with an existing WFCO WF 8955AN panel.

So back to my question is their anyone that has done this?





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Old 07-08-2011, 05:13 AM   #2
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I'm not an electrician, so forgive my question. What do you need 240volts for? I don't recall seeing a campground pedestal that would accommodate it.
I know some of the rigs have 50 amp service but I was under the impression that was 110 volt.
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Old 07-08-2011, 05:52 AM   #3
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Nothing to forgive, a valid question. I being a new camper owner was under the impression that a 50 amp pedestal offered 240 volts. This assumption was mine due to the 50 amp to a 30 amp adapter. the 50 amp end of the adapter has three blades and a ground pin. This is why I thought, not being familiar with campsite pedestals that the 50 amp was 240 volts. As for the need of 240 volts I don't need 240 volts, I was looking to have two 120 volt buss. This would enable me to split up my circuits between the two. Basically HVAC on one leg and the other circuits, microwave and tv receptacles on the other. But.......... If what you say about the 50 amp at the campground pedestal being 120 volt , then what I was thinking of doing will not be practical.

Thanks for your response, guess I need to get out of the driveway..........
Jerry
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Old 07-08-2011, 06:32 AM   #4
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First, you are right, 50 amp service is two 110v legs, so it really is 100 amps. I converted my previous Cruiser but left the stock converter and breaker panel in place. I simply added a small breaker panel before the factory panel (electrically before, but physically adjacent) with a double 50 amp breaker for the main disconnect and about six secondary breakers. The factory panel becomes a sub-panel. But I also moved several of the existing circuits over to the new panel in order to balance the load. This also allowed me to put the converter input on an individual breaker when previously it shared a breaker with another circuit.
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Old 07-08-2011, 07:05 AM   #5
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Hi Larry,

Thanks for the reply. So I'm I correct in Assumingthat the campground pedestals are 50 amp 240 volts? Or more precise, most are? Your reasoning as to balancing the load is what I was looking to accomplish. The panel I was thinking of getting ( WF 8930/50n) would allow me to do just that with three full size breaker slots per leg not including the main.

Thanks, Jerry




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Old 07-08-2011, 09:42 AM   #6
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All campground pedestals with 50 amp service should have two hot legs just like residential service. They will typically also wire the 30 amp service to one hot leg and a 20 amp GFI to the other leg. I'm not familiar with the panel you are planning to use. My panel costs about $11 plus cost of the breakers. Of course, the 50 amp power cord cost much more.

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Old 07-08-2011, 12:00 PM   #7
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Thanks Larry,

You have cleared up any confusion I had had about this modification. I believe your install was substantially more cost effective than with the WFCO panel I chose but it will fit very close in the existing location. I appreciate your input and expertise on this subject. Thanks again Larry.

Jerry




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Old 07-08-2011, 11:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayle1
First, you are right, 50 amp service is two 110v legs, so it really is 100 amps. I converted my previous Cruiser but left the stock converter and breaker panel in place. I simply added a small breaker panel before the factory panel (electrically before, but physically adjacent) with a double 50 amp breaker for the main disconnect and about six secondary breakers. The factory panel becomes a sub-panel. But I also moved several of the existing circuits over to the new panel in order to balance the load. This also allowed me to put the converter input on an individual breaker when previously it shared a breaker with another circuit.
I'm confused How do you get 100 amps from that?
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Old 07-08-2011, 11:54 PM   #9
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50 amp service is two tandem50 amp breakers in the pedalstal/panel . Their handles are constructed such that it operates both breakerssimultaneously but still 2 fifty amp breakers, thus actually capable of supplying 50 x 2 or 100 amps of current.
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:46 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Farmer

I'm confused How do you get 100 amps from that?


Guess if you want to be precise, it is one 50 amp service at 240 V OR two 50 amp circuits at 120 V. Since there is nothing in the RV that uses 240 V, then 100 amps is available for 120 V needs. Not too different than residential service where a 200 amp breaker panel is 200 amps at 240 V or 400 amps at 120 V, or any combination of the two up to 48,000 watts.



In reality, the difference between RV 30 amp service and RV 50 amp service is 3600 watts vs. 12,000 watts, and that is a big difference.
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:54 AM   #11
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OK I think I got it. Just to clarify a little more in my mind------if I wanted to run a welder out of my rig with that setup, could I just take a lead off each side and end up with 220volts needed for the welder? That is providing the park has enough service to provide it?



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Old 07-09-2011, 12:58 AM   #12
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Just as you could hook a residential dryer up and get 220/240.
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Old 07-09-2011, 01:19 AM   #13
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Got it. Thanks.



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Old 07-09-2011, 01:57 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Old Farmer
OK I think I got it. Just to clarify a little more in my mind------if I wanted to run a welder out of my rig with that setup, could I just take a lead off each side and end up with 220volts needed for the welder? That is providing the park has enough service to provide it?*




Sure you could, but in that case just put an RV 50 amp plug on the end of the welder and use any available pedestal outlet, even if you have to unplug your trailer during the time you are actually welding.
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Old 07-09-2011, 01:18 PM   #15
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if you get that welder hooked up to your 5er maybe you can help hhh with his pin box issues



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Old 07-09-2011, 11:01 PM   #16
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He would probably do a better job than Lipperts "certified" welder did.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:55 PM   #17
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Thank you sir.
If I couldn't, I would give my wire feed away.

Nothing like hijacking this thread.






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Old 07-10-2011, 11:35 AM   #18
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I'm only 'partly' responsible for hijacking, I wasn't the one to mention the welder ... but I will help un-hijack it.
I was doing some thinking today (i know, it scares me too), I'm no electrician so I may be wrong...but some of you guys say that you add a sub panel or separate and create more circuits to even out the load on a 50amp panel. I thought the panel was factory wired so everything but the 2nd AC runs off of one phase (I don't have 2 ACs so I'm not sure). I thought it was this way so that its compatible with a 15 or 30 amp (single phase) hook up. Now, if you split up the load over 2 phases more evenly wouldn't some things not work on 30 amp service?

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Old 07-10-2011, 11:41 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happycampers
I'm only 'partly' responsible for hijacking, I wasn't the one to mention the welder ... but I will help un-hijack it.* I was doing some thinking today (i know, it scares me too), I'm no electrician so I may be wrong...but some of you guys say that you add a sub panel or separate and create more circuits to even out the load on a 50amp panel.* I thought the panel was factory wired so everything but the 2nd AC runs off of one phase (I don't have 2 ACs so I'm not sure).* I thought it was this way so that its compatible with a 15 or 30 amp (single phase) hook up.* Now, if you split up the load over 2 phases more evenly wouldn't some things not work on 30 amp service?


The 50 amp to 30 amp dogbone shorts the two hot legs together, so it doesn't matter what circuits are on each leg, they all get 120V power. Of course power is now limited by the pedestal circuit breaker to 30 amps total vs. what would otherwise be 100 amps.
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Old 07-10-2011, 01:10 PM   #20
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that makes sense. I always thought that 50amp service was 'really' only meant for the 2nd AC (one each phase), but its possible for both of them to run on the same phase.
Instead of 50amps each line its now 15/15 or any other combination adding up to 30 depending on the load(s).
So for units that have a 50amp panel why wouldn't manufacturers wire things up more logically? For simplicity (all units the same on the assembly line)? Cost?
Cause it would be nice to have a split plug in the kitchen-- its even possible on 30amp service as long as each half of the receptacle has its own neutral.





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